DKI and No Touch Knockouts?

[DKI Girl]

arnisador...I have heard George make that statement many times....I think it says alot about kata.....


I am often amazed that some people just don't accept that you have to start somewhere with a technique...no matter what the technique is, you have to take it one step at a time before you can start using it quicker and easier.

No one has ever said that the no touch ko's are ready for combat use....yet.....but maybe in the future they will be. How many years ago was it that alot of people said pressure points couldn't be used in a fight too????

I guess time will tell......

Dave.....What did your instructor say to you about the No Touch subject? I would be curious to hear what was said about him doing it also.

dki girl

 

[RyuShiKan]

The difference with pressure points, tuite and all that compared to the "No-touchy-no feely KO" is that the result of the technique is "painfully" obvious and extremely practical. I have yet to hear any practical use for this dubious "technique"......

What's next?...................are we going to astral project ourselves???????
Or maybe levitate above our opponents so they can't hit us.........

I guess it is true what Barnum & Bailey said.........."There is a sucker born every minute"

 

[arnisador]

Originally posted by DKI Girl

How many years ago was it that alot of people said pressure points couldn't be used in a fight too????

I've been to many DKI events but never heard someone tell a story of doing this. I'm sure someone has and I'd be curious to hear about it.

 

[Cthulhu]

I don't recall ever seeing any footage of Dillman or other DKI people doing no-touch KOs, so I can't comment on them.

I've seen plenty of Mooney doing them, and it's just a lot of poop. Every bit of footage I've seen is taken by a group that is predisposed to believing in no-touch KOs, so they eagerly oblige him.

I think there's a link in another thread to a site describing a scientific test of Mooney's claim, which he failed fantastically.

Cthulhu

 

[tarabos]

Steve Stewart had some footage of the no-touch knockout on his website...

http://www.ssmma.com

however, i think the site is being re-designed since he parted ways with the wkka so you can't watch them now, unless the site is back up again.

i won't say that it works, i won't say that it doesn't, i will say that i've never had it done on me, so i can't say anything for sure. my instructor said that frank trejo was going to let dilman do the no-touch on him at stewart's camp a while back, but it never happened. I don't think mr. stewart wanted that at his camp.

EDIT: just checked the site, the videos are there.

 

[arnisador]

Originally posted by Cthulhu

I think there's a link in another thread to a site describing a scientific test of Mooney's claim, which he failed fantastically.

I posted it in the trhead about him in the General forum--it's on the Amazing Randi's site.

 

[KennethKu]

If he flunked out Amazing Randi's scrutiny, then it is a certified crock. :asian:

 

[Cthulhu]

Originally posted by arnisador



I posted it in the trhead about him in the General forum--it's on the Amazing Randi's site.

Thanks, arnisador...I should've figured you posted the link.

Cthulhu

 

[arnisador]

Here's the link:
http://www.randi.org/jr/071902.html

Very amusing! I saw several of Mr. Dillman's students, including a young girl, do the moving of up to five people in a conga line at a camp. Mr. Dillman says he does it while waiting in lines all the time.

Once again, a stage magic trick.

 

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by arnisador

Here's the link:
http://www.randi.org/jr/071902.html

Very amusing! I saw several of Mr. Dillman's students, including a young girl, do the moving of up to five people in a conga line at a camp. Mr. Dillman says he does it while waiting in lines all the time.

Once again, a stage magic trick.

Now that has some practical value!

That would come in handy over here in Tokyo when there are large lines, crowds and so on.

 

[arnisador]

Originally posted by RyuShiKan


Now that has some practical value!

In all seriousness, this is of course one reason people want to believe in it--it's not only easy and safe (at a distance), but would have other practical values as well. Kind of like being able to fly.

I've seen some amazing things in the martial arts but I'm not buying the no-touch knockouts and moving people with empty force. Magicians do it without Chi.

That would come in handy over here in Tokyo when there are large lines, crowds and so on.

I understand crowding is quite an issue there.

 

[D.Cobb]

Originally posted by RyuShiKan


There is a trend among certain MA folks to go around with a camera and have themselves photographed with various VIP's in the MA community and maybe even get a technique or two demonstrated on them to which they later claim "I trained with XXXXXXXX, see here is the photo of us".
One very famous MA author suggested I do this very thing.
Needless to say I don't..........and have never felt the need to lie about who I trained with.

Hey Mr. Rousselot, would that have been our mutual 'friend'?


--Dave

 

[D.Cobb]

Originally posted by DKI Girl

Dave.....What did your instructor say to you about the No Touch subject? I would be curious to hear what was said about him doing it also.

dki girl

It was during an advanced class, one night. All he said was he had done one, but he said it was hard and didn't work for him every time.
--Dave

 

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by D.Cobb



Hey Mr. Rousselot, would that have been our mutual 'friend'?


--Dave

That's correct. :asian:

 

[D.Cobb]

Originally posted by RyuShiKan




That's correct. :asian:

GEE!! Now there's a suprise....




NOT!!!!


:rofl:
--Dave
:asian:

 

[DKI Girl]

Originally posted by D.Cobb



It was during an advanced class, one night. All he said was he had done one, but he said it was hard and didn't work for him every time.
--Dave

I have seen it not work before or take alot longer than they anticipated. I do believe that they will get it to work reliably eventually. It's just going to take practice.

dkigirl

 

[RyuShiKan]

Two Classic examples of fake knockouts...........

http://www.kyushoworld.net/videos/MVC-376W.MPG and http://www.kyushoworld.net/videos/n...h Robert.mpeg

Why are they fake?

Notice the legs in the videos.
Peoples legs do not remain stiff/straight when KO..........their knees will give way first............
Also notice the way they fall...........people only fall like that in Hollywood movies when "acting" like they are KOed.


(Oddly enough his gi says Jack Hogan on the back........it's the same Jack Hogan that is connected to DKI.....)


Here is an interesing link as well called:

Exposing Self Defence Slight Of Hand And Trickery

http://www.xpres.net/~gmattson/ubbs/Forum2/HTML/001501.html

 

[Matt Stone]

Originally posted by DKI Girl

I have seen it not work before or take alot longer than they anticipated.

Which invalidates the usefullness of this technique in a self-defense situation... Last time I checked, muggers weren't too cooperative about letting you get ready for their attacks...

I do believe that they will get it to work reliably eventually. It's just going to take practice.

And in the 5000+ years of martial arts research and development, nobody has gotten it right yet? I think that, no matter how much I would like it to be true (Jedi mind trick anyone?), it amounts to cooperation (conscious or unconscious) between the do-er and the do-ee, nothing more.

Gambarimasu.

 

[nathan_sau]

i must say this topic is very interesting and judging on the video links you gave us Mr Rousselot i have to agree with your observations but on the whole i would have to have it done to me to beleive it.

Nathan
:asian:

 

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by Yiliquan1

And in the 5000+ years of martial arts research and development, nobody has gotten it right yet? I think that, no matter how much I would like it to be true (Jedi mind trick anyone?), it amounts to cooperation (conscious or unconscious) between the do-er and the do-ee, nothing more.
Gambarimasu.

I have to agree.

It seems every so often someone pops up and seems to think they invented something new or have taken something to a new level. Sorry just not true. With 5,000 years of people doing different arts all over the world more than a little of it overlaps from place to place and style to style.
What I think happens is those people don't realize that just because it is new to them doesn't mean it is new to the MA world.
I also believe that with more sophisticated scientific research and testing methods a lot of the "mysterious" stuff in the Arts is becoming better understood and better explained. When you get down to it there are only 2 kinds of arts. The kind that works and the kind that doesn't.
This no touch KO stuff is the kind that doesn't and is nothing more than a parlor trick and an unsophisticated one at that as I explained about the body motion a few posts up. There never will be enough time to set up a no touch KO in a real situation. Real defense calls for a one second reaction technique........if your technique lasts longer you most likely will not be having a good day.