Difficult Techs.

[rschoon]

Dance of Death + I just don't like the way the oponents leg coems up between your legs. And it is to hard to control that leg effectively.

Rick

If they throw a step thru punch then do a back to front switch and that will put you right where you should be. For the leg coming up your centerline, try using a close nkeel stance there to block the "accidental" strike.

 

[Rick Wade]

I appreciate everyones advise with Dance of death, I still don't like it. If any of you are attending the AKKI seminar next week look me up and we will work with it. Until then I still don't like it.

Thanks
Rick

 

[sumdumguy]

[qoute]Sumdumguy,
Getting into a close kneel stance shortens your base and will make you unstable. I agree that it will give you the groin coverage, but remember the opponent should be on his back and you should be holding his right leg (at the ankle) in your left hand. He's probably going to squirm and try to get off the ground, he'll probably try to kick you if you loose control of the right leg too. Having a shortened base will most likely cause you to loose your balance in that situation. To dangerous for my blood...[/QUOTE]
Uh, no sorry, the closer to the center of the opponents body your are with the grab the more control you have. I grab just above the knee for two reasons. One, to have better balance and control. Two, to land the opponent on the back of their head/neck thereby canceling any "squirming" they might have previously thought about. And I am not sure how you do a close kneel but In my world it is simply a modified forward bow. Only the hieght is modified not the depth. :asian:

 

[Kenpo Yahoo]

If they throw a step thru punch then do a back to front switch and that will put you right where you should be.

Why the heck would you move yourself back to an inside position when your opponent has practically given you his back and cancelled several weapons? This position won't last long, so while you are switching your opponent is regrouping his thoughts and efforts. Why not recoil off the groin shot and slide up to the neck, even if you don't tag the guy good, the initial knee jerk reaction will drop their body weight right into the Sleeper.

 

[dckenpo]

Hello Rick;

This is in response to your dislike of the technique "Dance of Death".

I have seen a couple of variations on this technique. First off forgive me if someone else has previously posted these observations.

When working with other "Kenpo" guys, we tend to step pretty close face when executing the step through punch, so the leg between your groin becomes an issue. I would get around this a couple of ways.

1. You can use a step-around approach when advancing for the takedown (kinda like you would at the end of short/long form 4). You basically step around your opponents foot from the outside to the inside as you are advancing; kinda like moving up the circle in reverse. (no pun intended). If you can't find the step around let me know.

2. There is another way I like to execute this technique it seems to work very well for me. After you execute your block and are stepping forward for the groin strike, I prefix with a glancing heel of palm strike to my opponents front leg. (I apply the strike to the meaty middle part of the right leg, then letting the rebound energy move forward into the groin). This accomplishes several things. 1. It flat out friggin' hurts/pain is a check. 2. it lowers his height zone minimizing effective execution of other weapons. 3. It opens his base by spreading his right leg out enough that you can step right through and execute the takedown without worring about his leg coming up into your groin (since his legs will be outside both of yours/advantageous positioning).

To execute the strike, locate the nerve area above your knee on the inside of your thigh. (when you hit it, you will know it) That is the target area for the palm heel strike. After the strike allow your hand to move forward into the groin. I will admit you won't get as hard and direct a groin shot as you would without this prefix, but I think it actually works better since it helps you manipulate your opponents body to an advantageous position for you. (Note: you are already striking your opponent with an outward back-knuckle to the same target on his other leg when he is down. That may help you locate the nerve area.)

Play with it and let me know if you like it any better. I know the guys I work with hate when we do that technique now.

Take care

David.

 

[rmcrobertson]

I agree with the bit about switching to, say, "Sleeper," (or "Thundering Hammers"), or going around the leg.

I don't agree that a) close kneels are unstable (because in "Dance," among others, you use them in paart so you do not have to bend your back), b) you should "hold the opponent's right leg in your left hand," (which you won't be able to do; wrap your arm around their lower leg as they go over, just about exactly as in shown in that useless kata, Form 5).

Most of the probalm peeople have with "Dance," from what I've seen, is that they do not step through the opponent assertively, and then start fiddling with the technique/forgetting about stances, and then start claiming that the thing don't work.

 

[Touch Of Death]

Hello Rick;

This is in response to your dislike of the technique "Dance of Death".

I have seen a couple of variations on this technique. First off forgive me if someone else has previously posted these observations.

When working with other "Kenpo" guys, we tend to step pretty close face when executing the step through punch, so the leg between your groin becomes an issue. I would get around this a couple of ways.

1. You can use a step-around approach when advancing for the takedown (kinda like you would at the end of short/long form 4). You basically step around your opponents foot from the outside to the inside as you are advancing; kinda like moving up the circle in reverse. (no pun intended). If you can't find the step around let me know.

2. There is another way I like to execute this technique it seems to work very well for me. After you execute your block and are stepping forward for the groin strike, I prefix with a glancing heel of palm strike to my opponents front leg. (I apply the strike to the meaty middle part of the right leg, then letting the rebound energy move forward into the groin). This accomplishes several things. 1. It flat out friggin' hurts/pain is a check. 2. it lowers his height zone minimizing effective execution of other weapons. 3. It opens his base by spreading his right leg out enough that you can step right through and execute the takedown without worring about his leg coming up into your groin (since his legs will be outside both of yours/advantageous positioning).

To execute the strike, locate the nerve area above your knee on the inside of your thigh. (when you hit it, you will know it) That is the target area for the palm heel strike. After the strike allow your hand to move forward into the groin. I will admit you won't get as hard and direct a groin shot as you would without this prefix, but I think it actually works better since it helps you manipulate your opponents body to an advantageous position for you. (Note: you are already striking your opponent with an outward back-knuckle to the same target on his other leg when he is down. That may help you locate the nerve area.)

Play with it and let me know if you like it any better. I know the guys I work with hate when we do that technique now.

Take care

David.

I'll play. Abandon this tech if they complete the step through, and work a verticle "T" take down or a rear take down. Go back and find out what the attack is and live with it. All your methods of "righting" this tech involve moving from the outside to the inside. Or better said... out of the frying pan and in to the fire.
Respectfully,
Sean

 

[parkerkarate]

The hardest technique for me to learn was Peircing Lance because it was hard to figure out which way to take the person down and than stick the knife straight in their throat.

My least favorite technique is Taming the Mace because it is very hard to pull of the re-grab and slaming the person into the wall efficiently.

 

[Doc]

The hardest technique for me to learn was Peircing Lance because it was hard to figure out which way to take the person down and than stick the knife straight in their throat.

Consider yourself lucky.

 

[Doc]

Amen. The whole "step-through" thing is another clear example of things left over from the traditional influences in Hawaii in the early years. Ed Parker Sr. abandoned that in the sixties. However he left it in his commercial interpretation because it allowed students to "see" the attacker coming and gave them time to work out their technique responses and react appropriately. However he also thought that at some point in time, teachers would instruct their students without such accoutrements. He always referred to this methodology as a "phonetic attack." not a literal one. So in the elementary stages of learning "motion," it philosophically fits perfectly.

In reading my own writing I thought is might be necessary to elaborate a bit more to clarify our curriculum. The "step through" is still utilized but primarily in weapons assaults, kicks, and in multiple strikes rom a single atacker as the real world would dictate. Further, we force students to respond to punches thrown from a position where the feet are usually equidistance from the victim from the beginning.

 

[Touch Of Death]

In reading my own writing I thought is might be necessary to elaborate a bit more to clarify our curriculum. The "step through" is still utilized but primarily in weapons assaults, kicks, and in multiple strikes rom a single atacker as the real world would dictate. Further, we force students to respond to punches thrown from a position where the feet are usually equidistance from the victim from the beginning.

I think this is one of the single most important issues in Kenpo today.
Sean :asian: (www.iemat.com)

 

[Nick Ellerton]

being a beginner one of the hardest techniques for me to learn was glancing salute. Reason being after delivering the handsword i would have troublewith my oponant getting away from me and not being able to finish the technique but thats pretty much it from me for now its great being a beginner, so much to learn

take care guys

 

[Touch Of Death]

being a beginner one of the hardest techniques for me to learn was glancing salute. Reason being after delivering the handsword i would have troublewith my oponant getting away from me and not being able to finish the technique but thats pretty much it from me for now its great being a beginner, so much to learn

take care guys

Refresh my memory, I may be thinking of the wrong tech, but I don't remember a handsword in glancing salute. Lets see:
1. Break
2. use left hand to pull opponent into glancing heel palm with right hand, then hook the head with right hand and pull opponent into...
3. right knee strike
4. Inward elbow (possible upward) as you step through, and cover.

Sean

 

[Shodan]

I learned Glancing Salute with the left outward handsword to the neck- simultaneous with the right knee. After the right palm-heel to face, you crane around the right side of the opponent's neck with your right hand and frictional pull them forward into your left handsword and right knee. It does make the last move hard to get cuz it sends them backwards.

:asian: :karate:

 

[Kembudo-Kai Kempoka]

Refresh my memory, I may be thinking of the wrong tech, but I don't remember a handsword in glancing salute. Lets see:
1. Break
2. use left hand to pull opponent into glancing heel palm with right hand, then hook the head with right hand and pull opponent into...
3. right knee strike
4. Inward elbow (possible upward) as you step through, and cover.

Sean

1. Break w/ L. Inward Block to opponents hyperextended elbow (accomplished by pinning hand to chest w/ L., then stepping back).
2. L. hand slides up the length of the hyperextended - and still pinned - opponents R. arm, to the throat or face;
3. From point of contact, L. Ot Handsword drops firmly back down the length of the arm, chopping inferiorly (towards the floor) to the crook of the elbow, as the R. Hand = palm heel w/ pivot to forward bow.
4. Reach behind head with Right palm heel (some schools even teach it as a palm-heel slide, with the impact being incidental to the placement of the hand in reaching around)
5. Pull head into R. Knee "sandwich".

The salute is the chop, and the glancing part is the hyperextension with the inward block on the way to the outward handsword.

D.

 

[Touch Of Death]

I learned Glancing Salute with the left outward handsword to the neck- simultaneous with the right knee. After the right palm-heel to face, you crane around the right side of the opponent's neck with your right hand and frictional pull them forward into your left handsword and right knee. It does make the last move hard to get cuz it sends them backwards.

:asian: :karate:

That is an insert that is giving you trouble. Lose it.
Sean

 

[KenpoTess]

Glancing Salute teaches How to Ride the force....

We teach Glancing Salute using a right thrusting heel palm strike to the jaw.

We also pin the opponent's right arm to their body with our left hand prior to shooting the right heel palm to the chin, careful not to circle the right hand around their right arm to strike- as this violates Point of origin and economy of motion.

Use your right anchored elbow to assist in bringing the opponent down to your knee-make sure you don't over reach with your knee kick.


~Tess

 

[Kembudo-Kai Kempoka]

Personal Modification (bold to indicate that I know this is not the way it's taught in AK): Liked the Thai knees off a neck wrestle, and the similar approach used in modified JKD kickboxing after a crash. Used to teach it (Glancing Salute) remaining compact, and not overextending. Now teach it as an intro to the the Thai knee from distant rear leg...i.e., as right hand reaches behind the head with the shape of the crane: Halt. Switch to latching on with both hands, as weight transfers to lead leg, and right leg slides back a bit more, still. Then, with full trunk and hgip flexion contraction, as well as "cable row" type strength move of returning the arms to the body via latissimus dorsi (largest and strongest of the upper & middle back muscles), pull opponents head into the knee as hard as you can, while thrusting the knee upward and forward...as hard as you can. Not as pretty as standard AK, but I know that the students can at least power off a hard core front knee thrust by the end of the lesson. In teaching it, will even have them repeat the knee as a triplet ("bang the guy three times, each time returning the right foot to the ground behind you").

I lose the refinements of kenpo, but personally believe I make up for it by providing a grosser movement, more likely to remain in muscle memory, and easier to recall and use in the chaos of assault.

D.

 

[KenpoTess]

Sounds good Dave Though to a beginner as Mr. Ellerton, I don't think that is what he needs at this time.
In our Penjak classes we utilize similar moves to what you are illustrating and indeed.. Devastating.
Maybe a new thread in the General Kenpo area

 

[Kembudo-Kai Kempoka]

Sounds good Dave Though to a beginner as Mr. Ellerton, I don't think that is what he needs at this time.
In our Penjak classes we utilize similar moves to what you are illustrating and indeed.. Devastating.
Maybe a new thread in the General Kenpo area

Thanks. Point taken. I guess this IS the EPAK section. *chagrined*.

Dave