Teaching Yellow Belt Techs - Input Needed

[Touch Of Death]

I agree. Rather than altering the tech to eliminate bad habbits, I think it would be just as easy to teach people how to do a proper forward bow with out diving into their punches. This could mean hours of drills with someone smacking you with a stick everytime you break your posture, but isn't that from where all our techniques originate? It all starts with attitude.
Sean

 

[pete]

At that angle, omitting the forward bow teaches terrible body mechanics, and denies a beginner a chance to learn...

robert, i've had private discussion with storm regarding this technique, and there are two different approaches to grasp of death, both of which teach proper body mechanics and offer beginners the chance to learn...

one version, as i was taught and continue to teach, turns the arm bar into a takedown with the defender going into a neutral bow facing 6:00.. this leaves the attacker's face looking straight up at you. your proper position to deliver a punch to his head would be dropping into a low horse.

the other version, as explained to me does not take the attacker down, but rolls the arm bar to bend him over. since his head is still at about 2:00, and at waist height, a forward bow would be the proper stance to deliver the punch.

don't assume that the techniques are taught and practiced the same as you've learned and practice them, just because they have the same name!
a forward bow at the end of version one would either have you punching the attackers knees or teaching some terrible body mechanis...

pete

 

[TwistofFat]

Pete,
I learned the forward bow (for the record) and harp on it for torque and good posture. I have two questions on the takedown version - would you have better control if the takedown was attacker going in face first? Secondly, wouldn't it be easier to kick the poor slob in the face instead of punching to the floor?
No disrespect intended, just curious how you teach it- I thought Mr. Parker used to say something like 'why should I kick a man in the head, it would be like punching a man in the foot'.

Regards - Glenn.

 

[pete]

hey glenn... good questions.. absolutely no disrespect... and keep going with the forward bow if you're doing version-two in my prior post... nothing wring with either of them.

wouldn't it be easier to kick the poor slob in the face instead of punching to the floor?

first, you want the beginner (its a yellow belt technique) to establish a good base (root) and develop leverage for the take down, whereas a kick will require more advance timing of when to shift weight, empty the kicking leg, and potentially compromise both root and leverage if rushed. the punch is distinct and clearly follows the takedown.

I thought Mr. Parker used to say something like 'why should I kick a man in the head, it would be like punching a man in the foot'.

same could be asked of why we punch at the end of Destructive Fans and kick the guy in the head at the end of Glancing Spear?

pete

 

[rmcrobertson]

Sorry, Pete, but I don't understand how, if you're grabbed in a headlock from the left when you're facing 12:00, and you do the technique, and you attack that right arm, you end up doing a takedown by pivoting to 6:00. That looks like a mis-recognition of Grip of Death....

I'm afraid that I also stand by my first comment. I do not think that it is good body mechincs to teach someone--especially a beginner--to punch completely across the body while remaining in a neutral bow here. I accept differences, but I'd also add that in my (admittedly limited) experience, it's hard enough to get yellow belts to pivot into forward bows and punch with some power as it is...

Thanks.

 

[pete]

I don't understand how, if you're grabbed in a headlock from the left when you're facing 12:00, and you do the technique, and you attack that right arm, you end up doing a takedown by pivoting to 6:00.

simple enough for our white belts... i think we can all get to the place where you've got his right arm extended, ok, your right hand is securing his wrist and your left forearm is applying pressure behind his elbow, you're in a left neutral bow, left leg is in front and to the inside of his right leg... now, here we go... push with your left forearm and turn from your waist while your right hand pulls the wrist toward your right hip. viola! you are now facing 6:00! and the bad guy is on the floor...

That looks like a mis-recognition of Grip of Death....

nope...

I'm afraid that I also stand by my first comment. I do not think that it is good body mechincs to teach someone--especially a beginner--to punch completely across the body while remaining in a neutral bow here. I accept differences, but I'd also add that in my (admittedly limited) experience, it's hard enough to get yellow belts to pivot into forward bows and punch with some power as it is...

Thanks.

my guess is that its a little different from how you've learned and you haven't tried it out with a training partner...

pete.

 

[rmcrobertson]

Well, thanks, Pete. I see what you mean now, but I'd got locked into the idea of pivoting the other way. Two points, though: a) executed properly, the base technique putsd the attacker on the ground at around 12:00 anyway; b) at the angle and range you're advocating, the better strike would be an overhead elbow.

I'm afraid I think it very important that beginners are NOT drowned in options like this.

 

[pete]

robert, what i've described IS the base technique, as i've been taught.

glad to see you were able to work it through... the elbow you describe seems like a good option, but would be too dependant on timing for the beginner, as i'd think you have to nail him on the way down to be effective.

i'd agree not to drown beginners in too many options too early on...

pete

 

[rmcrobertson]

OK, here's the problema.

Grasp of Death: in response to a headlock from your left side, step towards 10:30 with yoiur right foot, while turning your head to the right, dropping to a right close kneel, and delivering a left-handed claw to the opponent's groin from behind, while simultaneously pinning their right arm down with yhour right arm.

Step through to 10:30, while "arm-barring," their left arm with your left, and pulling their right hand back with your right. exchange hands so that your left pins their right across your lower chest and stomach, and deliver a right reverse punch to their temple or jaw while pivoting to a left forward bow.

First and foremost, I don['t see how a full pivot to a right forward bow would take you towards 6:00--rather, you'd aim at 4:30, since the initial right-footed step into the kneel (predicated on the attacker's yanking you towards your left, and the basic, 'go with the flow' approach to grabs and locks) leads you to the 10:30-to-4:30 line.

Second, I see that your taking the full pivot from Short Form 3--that makes more sense, and I didn't get that before. My error.

As always, Pete, thanks for your courtesy and intelligence.

 

[Nick Ellerton]

i think the one thing that i would have liked to no when i was being taught these techniques was the reason bwhind what we do y we make these movement and what part of the body enitiates the move but yeah alternating maces i found to be a hard technique to get power out of