Differing kias

[47MartialMan]

How so, your body should react almost identically?

DarK LorD

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Not really, when I sneeze I am discharging through my nose....not a Kia to me.

 

[Dark Kenpo Lord]

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Not really, when I sneeze I am discharging through my nose....not a Kia to me.

That's odd, most of the population of the world sneeze like this.

http://www.people.virginia.edu/~rjh9u/gif/sneeze.gif

Also adding a cut and paste from a website.

What is the benefit of sneezing in general? The easy answer is that the thing tickling your nose might be a bad thing (like a virus, bacteria or pollen), and sneezing forces it out. The problem is that most adults sneeze mostly through their mouth, and so sneezing won’t force anything out of the nose. This is in contrast to most animals, who sneeze largely through their nose (watch your dog or cat next time). So I think that sneezing really serves little purpose to humans (little kids might be an exception to this). I think that sneezing is important to animals that rely heavily on the sense of smell, but that in us it is just an annoying "holdover" of evolution.

DarK LorD

 

[Dark Kenpo Lord]

In Brief..
"I encourage all new senior students to use the "HUT" sound to help them "find" and develop their own Kiai."


"HUTT" is just a learning tool, breathing in the MA has to be worked on just like say kicking.
This sound "forcefully" expels air from the body, fortifies the body as well as reinforcing a delivered strike.
I sometimes use the example of a tennis player's "service shout" or a weightlifters "grunt" when trying to explain to studnts the diverse benefits of developing a "kiai", as well as other breathing techniques.
It is important to be able to empty the lungs instantly in some cases (eg when landing on your back from a throw) to avoid real injury.
So at white belt level building practice around a simple word like hutt makes the student consider the importance of correct breathing from day one.
As for frightening your opponent with a loud kiai, well it may work!
Richard

So you haven't given me any reason really other than your own personal opinion, no scientific empirical evidence to contradict why anything can't be used as a sound for a Kia. UUUUHHHH and AAAHHHHHH works for me.

You also haven't told me why the orifice is wrong.


DarK LorD

 

[47MartialMan]

A Sneeze is a Moist Kia?

 

[kenpoworks]

"So you haven't given me any reason really other than your own personal opinion, no scientific empirical evidence to contradict why anything can't be used as a sound for a Kia. UUUUHHHH and AAAHHHHHH works for me."

Well heck if UUUUHHHH and AAAHHHHHH works for you thats fine, I will try it out.......... ok done it... did'nt feel like a sneeze though!
I also see kiai as a short sharp shout, so UUUUHHHH and AAAHHHHHH may be a liitle long to fit in with my opinion of how to use and develop it.

Being a lay person and not a scientist I dont have the ""scientific empirical evidence"" of why hutt works "for me" as a tool for developing a kiai, just personal opinion based on personal observation, basically you have to exhale and tighten the abs when you forcefully yell hutt, it's difficult to inhale when you use it, at the end of the shout you clench your teeth.
And you are right when you ahhh-chooo it does come out of your mouth, myself like most people just assumed that sneezing was associated with the nose, so if you sneeze through the mouth its like a kiai, thats ok once again i foolishly assumed that you where advocating kiai-ing through the nose, I hope this clears up your orifices issue.
I suffer from hay fever and do sneeze a lot at certain times of the year usually and rather un scientifically through my nose!
Richard
ps err we are having a bit of a laugh here..... are'nt we?

 

[BruceCalkins]

"So you haven't given me any reason really other than your own personal opinion, no scientific empirical evidence to contradict why anything can't be used as a sound for a Kia. UUUUHHHH and AAAHHHHHH works for me."

Well heck if UUUUHHHH and AAAHHHHHH works for you thats fine, I will try it out.......... ok done it... did'nt feel like a sneeze though!
I also see kiai as a short sharp shout, so UUUUHHHH and AAAHHHHHH may be a liitle long to fit in with my opinion of how to use and develop it.

Being a lay person and not a scientist I dont have the ""scientific empirical evidence"" of why hutt works "for me" as a tool for developing a kiai, just personal opinion based on personal observation, basically you have to exhale and tighten the abs when you forcefully yell hutt, it's difficult to inhale when you use it, at the end of the shout you clench your teeth.
And you are right when you ahhh-chooo it does come out of your mouth, myself like most people just assumed that sneezing was associated with the nose, so if you sneeze through the mouth its like a kiai, thats ok once again i foolishly assumed that you where advocating kiai-ing through the nose, I hope this clears up your orifices issue.
I suffer from hay fever and do sneeze a lot at certain times of the year usually and rather un scientifically through my nose!
Richard
ps err we are having a bit of a laugh here..... are'nt we?

I re-posted your whole comment because I feel you Made a great point and also we could always use another Laugh... I think the best thing to say is that what ever Kiai works for you is the best. The Idea of what it is for is the question and there have been many great answers. I have found "For Me" that ending the Kiai on a hard note or making it short with a hard sound gives me the extra I need. But look at Bruce Lee's Cat Style Kiai... They worked for him... Maybe a Dog Bark or a Horse Neigh is the ticket for some one else..

 

[Dark Kenpo Lord]

I re-posted your whole comment because I feel you Made a great point and also we could always use another Laugh... I think the best thing to say is that what ever Kiai works for you is the best. The Idea of what it is for is the question and there have been many great answers. I have found "For Me" that ending the Kiai on a hard note or making it short with a hard sound gives me the extra I need. But look at Bruce Lee's Cat Style Kiai... They worked for him... Maybe a Dog Bark or a Horse Neigh is the ticket for some one else..

OK Soke LOL

Dude, your website and profile tell me exactly what I need to know. But now, back to sounds of Kia's.

DarK LorD

 

[MisterMike]

There are three reasons for a kia;

1. To exhale when you get hit or fall, to expel air voluntarily on contact.

2. To scare or intimidate your opponent audibly.

3. To add power to your technique by making you less buoyant on your impact.

Doesn't matter what sound you use but Kias should be short, and your body should replicate the actions of a sneeze. In fact, that's what I tell people a Kia is, a controlled sneeze, they can usually get it in a matter of minutes and do them well.

DarK LorD

Bouyant? Do kenpo people train in water? I can see this making more sense on land if I took in a big greath of Helium, but the kiai would sound damn funny...

 

[47MartialMan]

Yeah, if i use the KIA SNEEZE, someone will be sprayed with stuff out of my nose.

 

[Dark Kenpo Lord]

Bouyant? Do kenpo people train in water? I can see this making more sense on land if I took in a big greath of Helium, but the kiai would sound damn funny...

Good Grief, have you even read Infinite InsightsI? It's a friggin' metaphor.

DarK LorD

 

[kenpoworks]

Yeah, if i use the KIA SNEEZE, someone will be sprayed with stuff out of my nose.........and then they'd be sorry!

 

[Doc]

Yeah, if i use the KIA SNEEZE, someone will be sprayed with stuff out of my nose.........and then they'd be sorry!

See Rich, you blew it. I told you when I came over I would demonstrate why the sound matters, and how different sounds change the outcome of execution. Catch you next time.

 

[47MartialMan]

When stuff comes out of my nose...it isnt a KIA...the sound is a Ah Choo!

 

[kenpoworks]

..See Rich, you blew it ....

lol ya never miss a trick!


Tell me Doc is it "ah choo" or "ah chow"...there seems to be two schools of thought ?

 

[Doc]

lol ya never miss a trick!


Tell me Doc is it "ah choo" or "ah chow"...there seems to be two schools of thought ?

Actually the Japanese version is "ah so."

 

[Dark Kenpo Lord]

Well, if you people don't even know how your body functions during a sneeze, how on earth are you going to teach people the proper method or sound for a kia? The idea of a Kia is let the air go on contact, and not all your air. A Kia can be thought of as a relief valve, when the pressure gets high, it lets out a little air to equalize to a better working pressure. There's nothing mystical or magic about it. I think it's either Venus or Serena Williams that has a great service Kia at the moment they strike the ball.


DarK LorD

 

[Brother John]

The idea of a Kia is let the air go on contact, and not all your air. I think it's either Venus or Serena Williams that has a great service Kia at the moment they strike the ball.
DarK LorD

I think they both do it. In fact, it's very common in sports. Look at boxing. They do a forceful "Sss" sound with many of their punches. This way they don't release all the air at once and can keep going throughout a longer period with many combinations.

I know where you are coming from with the sneeze Clyde. I was kiddin around earlier, I really didn't think that this minor subject would develop contention. I think that a lot of people consider the sneeze to be a function of the nose. The nose is usually the source of the stimulous but the response is from the lungs and the throat/mouth. The way I do Kiai ((BTW: Isn't that the proper term to use?? Kia is a car.)) begins and ends abruptly. I think that's how it's like a sneeze.

Talk to you later.

Your Brother
John

 

[The Kai]

Well, if you people don't even know how your body functions during a sneeze, how on earth are you going to teach people the proper method or sound for a kia? The idea of a Kia is let the air go on contact, and not all your air. A Kia can be thought of as a relief valve, when the pressure gets high, it lets out a little air to equalize to a better working pressure. There's nothing mystical or magic about it. I think it's either Venus or Serena Williams that has a great service Kia at the moment they strike the ball.


DarK LorD

I think the word sneeze might be as accurrate and innaccurrate. Watch a boxer work a Heavy Bag, perhaps due to the fact that a mouthpiece won't allow a ton of mouth breathing. Boxers do alot of short sharp exhalations thru their nose, sounds kinda sneezish. Also probably due to the mouthguard (and gloves)when hit a boxer will do a short snort thru the nose to tighten up.

However in the Martial Arts there is a greater variety of yells used for different reasons
BTW - The Bruce Lee Cat yell was a movie thing (in his own words)

 

[kenpoworks]

.......... Kiai ((BTW: Isn't that the proper term to use?? Kia is a car.)) yes Korean make I think!
The tennis player I was thinking of was Connors.... thats me really showing my age!
When I do Heavy Bag my Kiai seems to manifest its self as more of a "mmm & grunt"
As for The buoyancy of the body I can relate to that in terms of how the degree of air expelled effects the density of the body.
Richard

 

[Brother John]

Kiai is Japanese. (In Korean it's "Ki-hap")
Ki = Energy (VERY often associated with the breath and the mind)
Ai = Blend/merge or join.

SO... Kiai is to blend your breath, mind and energy; to unify them. It speaks of much more than just the sound you make. That's really more of a bi-product.

If you think about it... take these two Japanese words and change their order and you have
Aiki
as in Aikido (the way of blending energies)
take the equivalent Korean word Ki-hap and change them around and also ad the suffix "do"...
Hapkido.

hmmmm

Your Brother
John