Desperate city

[KenpoEMT]

http://www.breitbart.com/news/2005/09/04/D8CDNSVG0.html

Police shot and killed at least five people Sunday after gunmen opened fire on a group of contractors traveling across a bridge on their way to make repairs, authorities said.

Deputy Police Chief W.J. Riley said police shot at eight people carrying guns, killing five or six.

Fourteen contractors were traveling across the Danziger Bridge under police escort when they came under fire, said John Hall, a spokesman for the Army Corps of Engineers. They were on their way to launch barges into Lake Pontchartrain to help plug the breach in the 17th Street Canal, Hall said.

Roving bands of armed lunatics, that's just great. Normally, I would say something like, "Arm the law-abiding citizens, and let them protect themselves." Only, there doesn't seem to be too many law-abiding citizens left in New Orleans right now. Desperate City indeed, very desperate. Is there a law that I would not break when my family is starving? (...well, yeah. I wouldn't try to kill contractors and exchange gunfire with law-enforcement officials.)

I hope the cops have some dang good armor. It sounds like they need to be wearing it on an hourly basis.

 

[michaeledward]

The only way to "save a city" is evacuation. With that many people to deal with...Moving thousands of people and housing and clothing them in 72 hours is a herculean task.

Cuba seems to be able to do this without too much difficulty.

 

[michaeledward]

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/02/national/nationalspecial/02response.html

People have no clue what a military mobilization entails.....

I believe one of the leaders of New Orleans, early on, stated that the city had only two needs ... Buses and Gasoline.

 

[Sapper6]

I believe one of the leaders of New Orleans, early on, stated that the city had only two needs ... Buses and Gasoline.

i believe the president had issued a declaration of emergency two days before the hurricane made landfall. the city's mayor left it up to the citzens to get themselves out. did you happen to see all the school bus compounds in the city that were full of school buses???

this leaves many wondering why the cities mayor did not do more during the mandatory evacuation...when he DID have buses and gasoline.

 

[michaeledward]

You go there Sapper O'Reilly.

 

[michaeledward]

i believe the president had issued a declaration of emergency two days before the hurricane made landfall. the city's mayor left it up to the citzens to get themselves out. did you happen to see all the school bus compounds in the city that were full of school buses???

this leaves many wondering why the cities mayor did not do more during the mandatory evacuation...when he DID have buses and gasoline.

When the President declares a state of emergency, the emergency becomes, by definition a federal event.

Former FEMA Chief of Staff Jane Bullock put it this way.

"The moment the president declared a federal disaster, it became a federal responsibility…. The federal government took ownership over the response,"

 

[Sapper6]

You go there Sapper O'Reilly.

hey man, just the facts, with no spin. :supcool:

i'm not defending the federal gov't for the way they are handling it. it should be better. but at the same time, the city of new orleans could have done a better job of getting people out. there was no command and control from the very beginning, even before the storm hit. over 2,500 school buses and two days notice. there's alot to be learned from this, from a state AND federal POV. did anyone really anticipate the collapse of the city's protective services and gov't? i certainly did not. when that does happen, it takes a while to respond. not speaking for the FEMA people, they should have been ready, no excuse for that. but it takes a couple days to mobilize and coordinate a 10,000 troop response.

 

[Sapper6]

When the President declares a state of emergency, the emergency becomes, by definition a federal event.

Former FEMA Chief of Staff Jane Bullock put it this way.

well sure but that doesn't mean the city shouldn't feel compelled to do anything about it. take ownership of your city and it's citizens. it's their job, regardless of higher levels of support.

 

[Sapper6]

Louisiana disaster plan, pg 13, para 5 , dated 01/00
'The primary means of hurricane evacuation will be personal vehicles. School and municipal buses, government-owned vehicles and vehicles provided by volunteer agencies may be used to provide transportation for individuals who lack transportation and require assistance in evacuating'...

where's the spin?

oh, and in case anyone feels the need to question my source...

http://www.ohsep.louisiana.gov/plans/eopindex.htm

keep in mind, the national guard is at the disposal and command of the governor of said state. this being the case, why was the Arkansas National guard on the ground in new orleans before the LA-ARNG?

and in case you're wondering about my source on that claim...

http://www.ngb.army.mil/

 

[Tgace]

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/9190577/

Excellent article on the issue of rebuilding New Orleans.

The first week augurs ill. If House Speaker Dennis Hastert is saying now—with sympathy at its peak—that pumping billions of federal dollars into restoring a city below sea level "doesn't make sense," then aid from Washington will plummet in a few months when attention turns elsewhere. Some wealthier refugees are saying privately that they've all but given up on the place. The pictures of looting seemed to burst a psychic dam inside them. Invest in this? Pay more taxes for them? That's a recipe for white flight—overnight. On the other side are blacks—well over half the city's population—who are fed up with a power structure that could not keep them alive, much less house and educate them. Whites and blacks in New Orleans were swimming in a fetid swamp of racial tensions long before Katrina showed up.

 

[Tgace]

Cuba seems to be able to do this without too much difficulty.

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/news/world/stories/091304dnintcubaside.168fc.html

In Cuba, evacuations are mandatory.

"I don't care whether it's called socialism or good governance," researcher Ben Wisner wrote after Hurricane Michelle. "This island has lessons for the rest of the Caribbean and the hemisphere."

Winds of change
Cuban authorities revamped their civil defense system after Hurricane Flora devastated the island in October 1963. The storm killed more than 1,000 people and was so powerful it changed the course of the Cauto River.

Since then, hurricane deaths in Cuba have become increasingly uncommon. Just 16 people died during six major hurricanes from 1996 to 2002.

Cubans say they have learned to live with storms. And some historians believe that hurricanes have shaped Cuban culture.

"Historians focus a great deal on what people do together, but now and then, the forces of nature overwhelm a culture and affect how cultures become what they are," University of North Carolina professor Louis Perez Jr. told an interviewer in June.

"What makes the French the French? What makes Americans Americans? One factor is environment – weather patterns, famine, harsh climates," said Mr. Perez, author of Winds of Change: Hurricanes and the Transformation of Nineteenth-Century Cuba. "These cultures begin to adapt to the possibility of catastrophe and to assimilate the peril into their everyday lives."

The Cubans routinely face these situations and mandate evac before the storm, always. Could you imagine the expense and outrage Americans would express if the gvt. forced evacuation every time a hurricane threatened? The fact that New Orleans skipped the bullet for so many years is probably one reason people didnt make a bigger effort to evacuate. These things are rare in the US. Not so Cuba.

 

[arnisador]

I would appreciate if people didn't downgrade me as far as reputation regarding posts on a political nature.

I'm inclined to agree, though sometimes a post is so extreme it's hard to resist (not directed at the poster, BTW).

 

[Shorin Ryuu]

Don't let the name of this blog throw you off (Right Wing Nutcase):http://rightwingnuthouse.com/archives/2005/09/04/katrina-response-timeline/
He has assembled all the stories from a single source: New Orleans Times-Picayune online site.

It is essentially a timeline of known actions that took place around this whole crisis.

As he says, the purpose of this isn't to play the blame game, but to just let people have a more coherent idea of what was done and where.

It runs from 26 August to 2 September.

An interesting read regardless of where you stand. I recommend everyone check it out to get a better of idea of what went on.

 

[shesulsa]

A brand-spanking new jail - unused and fully stocked - in the Pac Northwest awaits victims of Katrina, but will probably not be used due to stigma alone. Rescuees would have free roam and would not be restrained in any way, but the idea of putting folks into a jail seems to be too problematic.

Me, I'd be happy to have three hots and a cot. How 'bout you?

 

[Tgace]

I wonder why old military bases arent re-opened. Theyre designed to house and feed thousands of people. Entertainment and recreation complexes, shopping centers, garages, warehouses, schools, hospitals, etc. etc. They just need to be taken out of mothballs.

 

[sgtmac_46]

I wonder why old military bases arent re-opened. Theyre designed to house and feed thousands of people. Entertainment and recreation complexes, shopping centers, garages, warehouses, schools, hospitals, etc. etc. They just need to be taken out of mothballs.

I agree, bases are equipped to handle thousands, sometimes tens of thousands.

 

[arnisador]

Rescuees

Meanwhile, the war of the words continues, as Jesse Jackson decries the use of the word 'refugees' as racist in this contec\xt:
http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=1103187&CMP=OTC-RSSFeeds0312

 

[Makalakumu]

Racial tensions in the deep south are still very deep. People like Jesse Jackson watched people die in Mississippi...just to get the right to vote. Race played a significant factor with what happened in New Orleans. I'm not saying it was the only factor, but it played a part.

For instance, evacuation order...

"Naw get on outta hea!"
"Sir, what about the poor negros?"
"Let them boys take caya of dem selves."

Sure that is ficticious, but, IMHO, totally plausable.

 

[shesulsa]

I don't think most people really understand just how deep racism still runs in the South and in Texas.

My mother is a great example: she has no qualms about a person of color cooking for her and serving her food up, doing her laundry, housekeeping, etcetera. But to have a person of color clean her teeth, buy her groceries, ring up her clothing purchases or use her bathroom? She would consider it disgusting - but she's "not racist." Born and raised in Nashville, she was more than aware of what happened to black Americans all around her and thought not much of it. Interestingly, she received her just desserts when she moved to Southern California with my father where she was looked upon as being stupid because of her drawl. She's had to deal with it all her life and has been called 'hick,' 'hillbilly,' 'farm girl,' 'southern pig,' etcetera.

Racism is NOT dead, folks - we still have so very far to go.

 

[michaeledward]

It appears now that the National Guard and the Police are confuscating cameras, digital media, and film from photographers in New Orleans.

http://www.nppa.org/news_and_events/news/2005/09/hurricane2.html

Toronto Star staff photojournalist Lucas Oleniuk was taken to the ground by police in the Spanish Quarter after he photographed a firefight between looters and police, and police were then reportedly “beating on” a looter. A coworker at the Toronto Star told News Photographer magazine tonight, “The cops saw him and put him down, and took his gear. At first they were going to take all of his cameras, but he talked them into only taking the memory cards and letting him keep the cameras.” Oleniuk’s coworker says the photojournalist, who was not injured in the incident, went to New Orleans the day after the hurricane hit.

Who would've thought that in the United States, Press photographers would not be Free.