Dealing with your ego...

[KamonGuy2]

Lately, my dilemma has been dealing with newbie know-it-alls.

I've been attending the advanced class for the past three months, but lately I've been going to the beginner's because of my work schedule. I have had three different encounters with three different people who are about a month or two in.

They seem to feel the need to correct everyone on everything. Normally, that would be cool since they probably believe that I am new and trying to help out, but once they figure out I've been there awhile, they do not let up on making corrections on everything I do it seems, in fact it seems to exacerbate their need to (unfounded) troubleshoot me on my stance, position of my fook sau... you name it. Nothing is good enough for these instant Sifus. At one instance our (real) Sifu interjected and told one of them that so-and-so's techniques are fine, but still they will not relent.

How do you politely tell someone you're not following their advice without sounding like a know-it-all yourself? I know I am not flawless and I don't mind being shown the error of my ways, but I cannot stand being hen-pecked by people, especially when they're doing it just for the sake of... whatever.

It is the mark of a bad teacher when people start teaching each other in class

I teach up to 40 students sometimes and I know the troublemakers from the ego-less students

There are some students that insist on being know it-alls, so I make a poingt of going over to them in front of their training partner and correcting something that they are doing wrong
Problem solved...

The worst thng when training is when you are stuck with someone who's doing something wrong. It is tempting to help them fix it, but I leave that to whoever is teaching the class

 

[skinters]

i always found it a bit embarrassing to correct anyone on their mistakes,and always looked at it in the way that they would soon find out for themselves what they are doing wrong.its a bit of a double edged sword as they could look at you as being the know it all eh ?

i have only ever given advice if i knew 100% it to be right,and even explained that i was not trying to tell the person what to do.i usualy put it in a way that im only suggesting a different way.plant that seed and if they ignore move on.

i remember doing this drill with this guy who constantly was shaking his head and correcting me,telling me i was doing it wrong.i would call my sifu over and demonstrate me doing the drill,nothing wrong with that he said.when it came to this guy to do the drill he was complete crap ...i just stood there fuming inside...

i would never tell someone they were doing something wrong if i couldnt do the movement myself ...never .

some people can ignore this kind of thing i just cant,and have to admit it really annoys and gets to me.

 

[skinters]

Sounds pretty "Zen" to me, but I don't know about how realistic it is to try fighting with such a detached yet resolute frame of mind. At least one of my instructors believes that a certain amount of attitude, or what Bruce Lee referred to as "emotional content", is essential. Certainly, our bodies evolved a "fight or flight" response, in which our emotional, instinctive brain takes over, and our bodies surge with an adrenalin rush, because it gave us a survival advantage. In a real fight, I suspect a harnessed and well directed rage will usually get better results than enlightened detachment.

On the other hand, when training with real wankers in class, I find it helpful to adopt the more detached frame of mind. In other words, if you have to train with "tools", try to use them as tools for your training.

that was written about 5 yr ago and like i said its interesting looking back on my thoughts around that time. i still try and instill what i said to a certain degree,but if you look it closley its kind of a martial art holy grail,to be able to fight that why so calm and detached.it can be acheived i feel,ok only in part i agree,as the realites of fighting are far removed from the safety of the dojo or in my case pen lol.

think of this ...i hear a lot here about being calm and in total control of the emotions ,say where chisao is concerned we all rant about it ,and i agree it is something worth aiming for,but heres the thing ,fighting is a brutal,chaotic, bloody,life threatning nightmare,and i feel on times we are trying to control and supress what we are and what we do when the **** hits the fan,complete utter chaos and violence.

this is another of my dilemmas,it seems to me a lot of people who do kungfu for instance think they can move around in flowery patterns,and the universe of kungfu will be at their disposal ,but to me to make these movements works in wingchun they have to be fast,powerfull explosive,full of intent and purpose,..ie emotional content .

anything i write is not set in stone,just something to think on,and im kind of speaking out loud here, so pay it no mind.

 

[Hagakure]

I hate people like that, thankfully, there's no one like that where I train. My advice? Don't train with them. What I try to do is start off training with my mates in class, but also to observe when the occassion permits itself, the other guys that I train less with. Spot who's taking it seriously and being genuine, those are taking it less seriously, and those with MASSIVE egos, not giving anyone a chance to learn.

What I can't equally stand is those people, who far from trying to win at all costs, make almost no effort in their attacks at all. You know the types? They attack with all the ferocity of a wet lettuce?

The best to train with for me are those who control their attacks, but ensure that they're full force and that we both learn from the experience. Point aside about my own ego, one night, after a strenuous session, I deliberately picked a younger, skinny asian guy, very quiet, non-descript you might say. "Ha-ha" Said I, an easy finish to the evening.... Not quite. Not only did this guy move like a scalded cobra, he had(s) the BONIEST arms in Britain. Deceptively strong for his size and build and age, we became friends, and now I know who to avoid if I'm starting to tire. Good to keep our own egos in check sometimes.

 

[Seeker]

It is the mark of a bad teacher when people start teaching each other in class

I teach up to 40 students sometimes and I know the troublemakers from the ego-less students

There are some students that insist on being know it-alls, so I make a poingt of going over to them in front of their training partner and correcting something that they are doing wrong
Problem solved...

The worst thng when training is when you are stuck with someone who's doing something wrong. It is tempting to help them fix it, but I leave that to whoever is teaching the class

Yes, usually a Si Hing gets stuck with the beginner’s class after we run through the basics and they aren't always as attentive as they could be.

I had an interesting encounter last night, I ended up doing pak drills with one of the geniuses and was able to up root him with just paks against his punches. Poor guy seemed a little red-faced.

I've decided that my 'revenge' will be in my actions because sooner or later they're going to start chi sau and their deficiencies WILL come to the surface :2xbird:

 

[Seeker]

Seeker wrote:


I do not do Wing Chun so your mileage may vary. This is common in many of the arts. The new people are often nervous and this makes them ‘chatty’ and to help themselves get over the anxiety they try to help others so as to take their mind off of their own confusions. For others it is simply social posturing as they try to establish their position in the pack. Others are insecure and to cover up the insecurity they try to impose their will

<snipped for brevity>

Good luck
Regards
Brian King

Thanks Brian,

That is very sound reasonning, but I still want to fak sau them in the neck.

 

[Yoshiyahu]

I want to see the video...please get it on video!

Thanks Brian,

That is very sound reasonning, but I still want to fak sau them in the neck.

 

[melissa27]

Lately, my dilemma has been dealing with newbie know-it-alls.

I've been attending the advanced class for the past three months, but lately I've been going to the beginner's because of my work schedule. I have had three different encounters with three different people who are about a month or two in.

They seem to feel the need to correct everyone on everything. Normally, that would be cool since they probably believe that I am new and trying to help out, but once they figure out I've been there awhile, they do not let up on making corrections on everything I do it seems, in fact it seems to exacerbate their need to (unfounded) troubleshoot me on my stance, position of my fook sau... you name it. Nothing is good enough for these instant Sifus. At one instance our (real) Sifu interjected and told one of them that so-and-so's techniques are fine, but still they will not relent.

How do you politely tell someone you're not following their advice without sounding like a know-it-all yourself? I know I am not flawless and I don't mind being shown the error of my ways, but I cannot stand being hen-pecked by people, especially when they're doing it just for the sake of... whatever.

Hi Seeker- that is so funny, I was searching this forum and came across this thread, this just happened to me a couple of times recently. It annoys me too, and sometimes it helps me to think why the person may be doing what they are doing (maybe it's ego & arrognace, maybe it's nerves or they are too new to really 'get' how inappropriate it is to do that).

At any rate, in the system that I am in, it is inappropriate to correct someone unless you are the sensei, a certified instructor, or the sensei gives you permission to do so (which is rare, because that's what the sensei & dans are there for!). It is understood that in sparring, the higher rank takes the lead and it would be inappropriate to correct someone of a higher rank. If you think someone isn't doing something incorrectly, you can call the sensei over and ask him or her to watch *you* and normally they will stick around to watch the other person too. If you or the other person is doing something incorrectly, they will let you know.

Nevertheless, you still get these yahoos who just don't get it. I was sparring with a yellow belt yesterday (I'm a brown) from another class who I never met before and who started correcting me, and I simply told him to let the instructor make the corrections. I'm not sure if he fully got it, and as a yellow belt he really should understand dojo etiquette by now. Since he didn't get it I thought it was appropriate to be direct with him, especially since this was a special class and all of the masters were there watching us, as well as the dans in the system, and I thought that was pretty arrogant of him to think he had the authority to be correcting anybody. If this happens with a white belt and it's possible that they just don't understand yet that this isn't appropriate behavior, I may use humor or give them a hint first (like ignoring what they say, then if they try to correct me again I then let them know that the dans/instructors are there for that).

Although, I must say I love Brian's idea of calling the sensei over and calling out the behavior!