De-escalation - suggestion that a new sub-forum be created.

[Hawk79]

The title says it all really. I think de-escalation is an important skill for martial artists to learn. I can see that there are a few posts about the subject but it would be nice to have a sub-forum.

I think having a sub-forum on de-escalation would help to bring the topic to the forefront of peoples minds. It is an important topic for all martial artists.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

I think de-escalation is an important skill for martial artists to learn.

I had asked this question before. Let me ask this question again.

In the following video, if you are a passenger on that bus, how can de-escalation be able to save the bus driver from being raped?

 

[Hawk79]

I had asked this question before. Let me ask this question again.

In the following video, if you are a passenger on that bus, how can de-escalation be able to save the bus driver from being raped?

I don't understand sorry. Are you trying to suggest that de-escalation doesn't work because it would not work for the bus driver?

I'm sorry, your response just doesn't seem relevant to my question.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

I don't understand sorry. Are you trying to suggest that de-escalation doesn't work because it would not work for the bus driver?

What will you do if you are

- the bus driver, or
- a passenger,

on that bus?

 

[Hawk79]

What will you do if you are a passenger on that bus?

This subject of this thread is a suggestion for a de-escalation subforum. Your post is completely off topic.

I honestly cannot see the relevance of what you are asking. Are you trying to suggest de-escalation doesn't work and people should ignore it? If so, please say so.

If you are trying to tell me that de-escalation would not have worked in the video you posted, that is off-topic.

No-one is suggesting that de-escalation works in every single scenario. So pointing out a scenario where it wouldn't work is is completely pointless.

I did not watch your video as I keep seeing you post it and it does not seem relevant.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

No-one is suggesting that de-escalation works in every single scenario.

That's a proper answer for my question.

Most of the time when people talk about self-defense, they don't want to talk about to protect

- your family members,
- your loved one,
- a total stranger,
- ...

 

[Hawk79]

Right... so when de-escalation fails people would then need to use martial arts techniques.

But de-escalation is still an important skill.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

when de-escalation fails people would then need to use martial arts techniques.

Thanks for saying this.

My teacher told me that it's wrong that you

1. get into a fight without any good reason to fight for.
2. didn't get into a fight when there is a good reason to fight for (such as to save your family member).

People talk about 1. But people don't want to talk about 2. IMO, it's not balanced.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

But de-escalation is still an important skill.

If one should not fight without a good reason for, de-escalation is not needed.

On the other extreme, to "help good to fight against evil" should be encouraged.

 

[Rich Parsons]

The title says it all really. I think de-escalation is an important skill for martial artists to learn. I can see that there are a few posts about the subject but it would be nice to have a sub-forum.

I think having a sub-forum on de-escalation would help to bring the topic to the forefront of peoples minds. It is an important topic for all martial artists.

Hi Hawk79,
.
I am curious, why wouldn't the Security and Bouncer Forum work?
.
I mean I can see those not into those fields also teaching or working those techniques of -de-escalation.
.
Curious is all
Thank you

 

[Hawk79]

If one should not fight without a good reason for, de-escalation is not needed.

You can only control yourself. That means you may very well live your life only engaging in violence if there is a good reason for it. That does not mean that other people will have the same mindset. It is when you meet these other people who don't have a healthy worldview that you may need de-escalation skills. Sometimes people just want to show you how tough they are. You can use de-escalation to make them feel tough without putting them in a position where they feel they need to be violent.

There are also situation where you can deal with people who are mentally disturbed. In these kinds of situations de-escalation techniques can also help. For example, you would avoid disagreeing with the mentally disturbed person by:
1. Agreeing with them if you can. "You're right, people should not ignore you. You're a human just like everyone else" Otherwise:

2. Agree with the underlying principle. "I agree that people deserve to be respected" (you might need to agree with an underlying principle when the specific thing someone is requested is unreasonable. For example the person who is mentally disturbed may think that not wearing blue hats is disrespectful to them). Otherwise:

3. Agree based on the odds. "I think a lot of people would not enjoy the loud music in this bar". In other words, the music might be reasonable for 90% of people but 10% of people is still "a lot".

1. get into a fight without any good reason to fight for.
2. didn't get into a fight when there is a good reason to fight for (such as to save your family member).

People talk about 1. But people don't want to talk about 2. IMO, it's not balanced.

A lot of people do talk about fighting when there is a good reason to fight. Many of them are misinformed. But ultimately it is about self-defence law.

I am curious, why wouldn't the Security and Bouncer Forum work?
.
I mean I can see those not into those fields also teaching or working those techniques of -de-escalation.
.

To be honest, I didn't actually think about that.

However, I think the skill of de-escalation is so important that it should be treated like an important division of martial arts. For example, you have wrestling, striking, throwing etc etc which then make up the rest of martial arts. De-escalation should be treated as one of the core divisions of martial arts.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Sometimes people just want to show you how tough they are.

Can you just simply turn around and walk away?

 

[Hawk79]

Can you just simply turn around and walk away?

Yes, sometimes you can do that - in which case you are not needing to use de-escalation skills.

You cannot always walk away if from an aggressor.

Walking away from a person who is experiencing an episode of paranoia may just make things work.

It could also be dangerous to turn your back on someone who is working up the courage to attack you - it might just be that thing that pushes them over the edge.

Police and security guards cannot always walk away.

In any case, walking away could be seen as a de-escalation technique but it is not the only technique and is not universally applicable.

 

[drop bear]

What will you do if you are

- the bus driver, or
- a passenger,

on that bus?

What is the likelihood we are going to be on that bus?

So would deescalation potentially be worthwhile in some of the infinite circumstances that did not happen on that bus?

 

[drop bear]

The title says it all really. I think de-escalation is an important skill for martial artists to learn. I can see that there are a few posts about the subject but it would be nice to have a sub-forum.

I think having a sub-forum on de-escalation would help to bring the topic to the forefront of peoples minds. It is an important topic for all martial artists.

The problem you have is nobody really cares enough to develop as system of deescalation.

So you get a bunch of vague ideas. But nothing you could really learn anything from.

 

[Hawk79]

The problem you have is nobody really cares enough to develop as system of deescalation.

So you get a bunch of vague ideas. But nothing you could really learn anything from.

Yes, that is exactly the problem. That is why I think it should have it's own subforum. So that the handful of people who do care have ready access to other peoples posts. Not only that but people who are just browsing can come in and share their thoughts.

I hope that I have given you at least a little more than a vague idea with this three step process:
1. Agree with the facts. This this is not possible then;
2. Agree with the underlying principle of what they are saying. If this is not possible then:
3. Agree with the odds.

 

[Steve]

I've said before, but if anyone wants to get really good at deescalation, take a job at a large government agency as a customer service representative. IRS, Social Security, the VA, or any one of a number of State or local agencies like the DMV or whatever your State's social services agency is called. This is particularly true since the pandemic. The "general public" has gone completely bonkers, and step one in helping a member of the public is almost always talking them down.

My theory is, if you really want to learn deescalation techniques, talk to people who have to interact with dangerous, angry, irrational people every single day, and don't have dogs, guns, tasers, or tactical armor to protect them. I'll take the person working the front desk at a social security office all day long over pretty much anyone else.

 

[Steve]

More to the direct point of the thread, I'm not sure the topic has enough variation to support a full subforum, but the topic is interesting and there's plenty to discuss. A thread somewhere (like this one) seems interesting and helpful to me.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

In this thread, you assume you are the good guy and everybody on this planet are all bad guys and try to get you. IMO, this is not a healthy way to live.

I prefer to assume that I'm the bad guy. Everybody on this planet are all good guys. It's such a wonderful and friendly place to live.

One night, I walked in a dark street of Rio de Janeiro. A guy who leaned against the wall looked at me, looked at my watch (I had a $150 Seiko watch on my wrist), and looked at me again (I was 6 ft long hair Chinaman with leather jacket and blue jean), he then turned his head away. Next night, I went to the same spot. I leaned my back against the wall. When people passed by me, they all walked toward the other side of the street. After that night, my feeling about good guy and bad guy had changed.

 

[MetalBoar]

I've said before, but if anyone wants to get really good at deescalation, take a job at a large government agency as a customer service representative. IRS, Social Security, the VA, or any one of a number of State or local agencies like the DMV or whatever your State's social services agency is called. This is particularly true since the pandemic. The "general public" has gone completely bonkers, and step one in helping a member of the public is almost always talking them down.

My theory is, if you really want to learn deescalation techniques, talk to people who have to interact with dangerous, angry, irrational people every single day, and don't have dogs, guns, tasers, or tactical armor to protect them. I'll take the person working the front desk at a social security office all day long over pretty much anyone else.

This for sure! I don't know how things are now, but I chose to work retail briefly after COVID shut my business down and most people were very nice, but there was a large minority who were absolutely unhinged! During my first week I had multiple co-workers tell me, "Don't feel bad if you have to go in the back and cry. Everyone does eventually."

I never needed to go cry, but I'd worked the late night drunk rush at Denny's for the first part of my 20's, so it had nothing on that. I've had drunks throw lit cigarettes at me, spit on me, take a swing at me, try to grapple with me, talk about my appearance, masculinity, morals, genetics, intelligence, and a host of other things while trying to start a fight (and of course they said the same things about my mother). Yeah, if you want a crash course in de-escalation go work a public facing job where you have no power, can't leave, and aren't even supposed to defend yourself if you're physically assaulted!