DAwkins interviews creationist automaton

[yorkshirelad]

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[yorkshirelad]

Is there any way of knowing whether surgery is a better treatment for acute appendicitis than prayer?

Has an atheist ever hijacked an airplane? Been a suicide bomber? Certainly not in proportion to their numbers, and not for atheism if they did--but these things are done by the religious and in the name of religion all the time.


quote]
I would much prefer sugery and I thank God to be living in a time of such technological avncement.

I can think of 2 Godless dictators who killed millions of their own people. Again, the religious don't have the monopoly on carnage.

 

[arnisador]

I know atheists who have fish stickers on the back of their cars with Darwin written in them to mock christians. I have an aquaintance who married his wife because she was attractive and then sprung his atheism on her

I don't think the fish mock Christians--they mock creationists. Of course, creationists are almost all (American) Christians. As to the anecdote--shouldn't they have discussed religion before marriage if it was important to either of them?

atheists such as Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, and Hitler have killed and tortured many. It was because of the illusion of their own omnipotence that the did what they did. Maybe their lack of belief contributed to their accountability to themselves alone.

Hitler was absolutely Christian, and his intolerance of others' beliefs (and their right to same) is exactly a Christian virtue. He's 100% one of yours.

 

[arnisador]

That is just the problem. Dawkins is wholly committed to exactly this kind of evangelism you mentioned. He is often impossible to escape. For a while here we could not go anywhere without the "There's Probably No God" propaganda. It was all over the papers [double-page spreads] it was on billboards, it was on buses all over town..

Again, let me just state, I have no problem with anybody's position. What galls me is those having a position, such as that of Dawkins, Polly Toynbee and all the others here who would shove it down my throat, and do exactly all those aforementioned things you posted.

Can you imagine how religion-filled the world appears to the rational? Prayers given at the start of major events, crosses on public property (being litigated before the Supreme Court now), "In God We Trust" on the very money we use...you're complaining about a very tiny amount of anti-religiosity and it seems quite tame compared to all the religion shoved down our throats.

 

[elder999]

Can you imagine how religion-filled the world appears to the rational? Prayers given at the start of major events, crosses on public property (being litigated before the Supreme Court now), "In God We Trust" on the very money we use...you're complaining about a very tiny amount of anti-religiosity and it seems quite tame compared to all the religion shoved down our throats.

In fairness, these things are largely American-one doesn't see much of them where Jenna is from. Some of those things are somewhat ridiculous form either side: an atheist sued to have the crosses removed from the city seal of the city Las Cruces, ("the crosses") New Mexico. I also think the whole descanso thing constitutes a bit of "nonya."

That's me, though-I still try to follow that 11th commandment...:lfao:

Hitler was absolutely Christian, and his intolerance of others' beliefs (and their right to same) is exactly a Christian virtue. He's 100% one of yours.

It's debatable just how much of Christian he actually was, given his involvement (dare I say, obsession?) with the occult. In any case, the real horror was not Hitler, but what so many did in his name-and they were mostly, unquestionably calling themselves "Christians."

 

[arnisador]

For example, (again!), the 68 degree rule :

I’m in a room at 68 degrees Fahrenheit-that’s a fact.

I say “It’s cold in here,” which, for me, is the truth.

My co worker gets up from his chair sweating, walks right over to the thermostat, turns it down even more and says, “It’s too hot in here,” which, for him, is the truth.

And there we have it: one fact, two truths, all valid.

I've found that if my wife says It's cold in here, that's actually a fact.

So while you can accurately claim that religion cannot directly kill, you cannot say with any cogency that it is not used to kill people.

My daughter has a T-shirt that says "Gods don't kill people, people with gods kill people."

 

[yorkshirelad]

Oh, I didn't say the deity was the problem man. But he did use a model pretty close to religion, after all, a good idea is a good idea. Single man as the highest arbiter (rather than your own self interest), indoctrination, turning it into an us versus them, asserting that you and your way is superior to all others (so join or die).

Either way, crazy is crazy, he's just one of the few who didn't do it for god.

Spot on! Religion has been used as a means of supernatural cohersion since the dawn of civilization. The non religious have used similar tactics to coherse the populace into towing the line also. The bottom line is that the deity (whether you believe or not) has nothing to do with the crimes committed by those who profess to speak for it.

I don't understand why the debate in question is still in session.

Again, evolution is real-everyone here agrees.

There is no way of knowing if the deity exists or not-everyone agrees.

Both the faithful and nonfaithful have committed atrocities-everyone agrees.

Is there something I'm missing?

 

[celtic_crippler]

If he's Cheech can I be Chong? :supcool:

 

[yorkshirelad]

Hitler was absolutely Christian, and his intolerance of others' beliefs (and their right to same) is exactly a Christian virtue. He's 100% one of yours.

You're a lunatic. Hitler is one of mine :rofl:

In that case, Stalin and PolPot and both yours.

 

[arnisador]

So how do you define rationalist?

Reason, evidence...using one's powers of logic and deduction, as opposed to faith and guesswork.

 

[celtic_crippler]

You're a lunatic. Hitler is one of mine :rofl:

In that case, Stalin and PolPot and both yours.

Only if he's a Communist.

 

[yorkshirelad]

It's debatable just how much of Christian he actually was, given his involvement (dare I say, obsession?) with the occult. In any case, the real horror was not Hitler, but what so many did in his name-and they were mostly, unquestionably calling themselves "Christians."

Did Hitler require belief in Christ from his people or belief in him and his state? Hmmmm....let me think.

 

[Tez3]

I've found that if my wife says It's cold in here, that's actually a fact.



My daughter has a T-shirt that says "Gods don't kill people, people with gods kill people."

I have a t shirt that says 'I have the body of a god, shame it's Buddha'

Elder is correct, Jenna and I don't see much of public religion here, over here G-d is an Englishman and therefore not in your face, He's a diffident sort of guy who people only mention with embarassment the same way we talk about how much we earn. We do all like singing 'Jerusalem' at the rugger though and 'Abide with me' will bring tears to most eyes, both are more to do with patriotism rather than religion though. I think the most 'religious' thing we have here in public is Remembrance Sunday.

 

[yorkshirelad]

Only if he's a Communist.

So, in that case, if Hitler is one of mine, as staed by Arnisador, he's equating me to a nazi? Classy!!

 

[arnisador]

In that case, Stalin and PolPot and both yours.

Those who choose to join the Christian church have something in common. Those who don't really don't. I'm no more lumped in with other non-Christians than in the default way I am lumped in with other non-soccer players. I haven't joined a group those two are associated with--I've not joined a large number of groups they didn't join. Incidentally, Stalin's atheism was secondary to his communism.

Not having a property is its own sort of property, but not generally an interesting one. But electing to join an org. is an affirmative statement. Atheists don't sign a statement of disbelief, but Catholics (say) all have a pretty coherent set of specific beliefs, or at least profess to.

 

[arnisador]

So, in that case, if Hitler is one of mine, as staed by Arnisador, he's equating me to a nazi?

You claimed that Hitler was an atheist. This is false; he was a Roman Catholic. The Nazis also had their own "Positive Christianity" that was meant to mesh well with Nazism.

So, in claiming that you have been dubbed a Nazi you seem to be trying to misuse Godwin's Law to get out of admitting that you were wrong.

 

[Omar B]

Spot on! Religion has been used as a means of supernatural cohersion since the dawn of civilization. The non religious have used similar tactics to coherse the populace into towing the line also. The bottom line is that the deity (whether you believe or not) has nothing to do with the crimes committed by those who profess to speak for it.
I don't understand why the debate in question is still in session.
Again, evolution is real-everyone here agrees.
There is no way of knowing if the deity exists or not-everyone agrees.
Both the faithful and nonfaithful have committed atrocities-everyone agrees.
Is there something I'm missing?

Dammit! You know we like to bicker, beat a topic to death and then keep driving at it for a couple weeks more! We have covered all the angles, both religious and atheist, but like most threads on here this one's gonna live on for a while.

But yeah, crazy is crazy, but a working model is just that too ... it's where the two meet that we have a problem. Sadly these two have come together far too many times in history and the lions share of those times were religiously motivated.

Oh, and I've decided, I'm no longer an atheist, I've chosen a new god and his name is Superman. Common, who's a better example to live by than that?

 

[CanuckMA]

I've found that if my wife says It's cold in here, that's actually a fact.

QFT


You're siting in the living room atching TV. Wife walks in, says "it's cold in here", turns up the thermostat and leaves. - Bill Cosby

 

[celtic_crippler]

...so anyway...

This Dawkins fellow interviews this dumb blonde....

 

[Omar B]

...so anyway...
This Dawkins fellow interviews this dumb blonde....

Wait, who shot who in the what now?