Dangers of Capitalism Growing

[elder999]

A friend of yours eats puppies and he's still your friend?!

He'd be brought to the attention of the RSPCA and prosecuted over here and quite right too.

It seems that today is the day that people I had a good opinion of are losing that kudos hand-over-fist.

Dude, puppy is a righteously good meal. Some day I'll tell the story of the macrobiotic vegans and the puppy at Sundance. :lfao:

 

[Tez3]

I wouldn't say our takeaways are fast food lol, they take ages, best thing is to phone up then collect about an hour to an hour and a half later.

MA Caver, you're making th classic mistake of calling us the 'English' when referring to the British, it wasn't the English empire, it was the British Empire. In Africa we weren't the only colonialists, other countries had their colonies too.
I think it's a mistake to think Japan has changed totally, their culture and customs are still very different from others. It's also a mistake to think that the Arab Spring means the people want a piece of American capitalism, you'll find they will actually be turning to Muslim fundamentalism.

I can't see what you are getting at tbh, you are still speaking of capitalism as if it and Americanism were the same thing, you would be surprised to know how many capialist societies don't want to live the American way and nor do they. Sure there's McDs everywhere but America has absorbed far more of European culture than we have of yours, you speak English for a start and the second most spoken language by all accounts is Spanish another European language. the McDs thing is only on the surface, in Europe and I suspect most other countries including Japan, the native culture is deep set, we only pay lip service to American customs and habits that have caught on here.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Surprised to come back to the list of new threads and see that this one had a lot of responses. Good it keeps MT alive and well with active postings... even if they aren't always Martial Arts related....

My desire to post the OP and "quotation" was to point out the potential of losing other cultures in favor of bowing to just one. I chose capitalism because it seems to be the flavour of the month and I chose America as right now it's what we've been doing since the 60's and 70's spreading our way of life. I know there are examples of capitalism all across the globe and not all of it is of Americanized origins... But I would say that most of it is.
But my OP is not about American capitalism it's just about cultural diversity and helping to keep it on our planet.
Japan for example used to be one of the most culturally different people in the world. Fairly isolated on their large island unchanged until the early Spanish, Portuguese, English and Dutch explorers set foot on their shores. The early explorers were shocked at how quickly one can lose their heads (literally) and the class system which separated the people in the land and how everyone seemingly got along. Samurai class and pheasants living their lives as they have for hundreds (if not thousands) of years. So seeing the rich opportunities that could be exploited (read: capitalism rearing it's ugly head) the explorers (who were viewed as barbarians by the Japanese) got a toe-hold in the name of trade and set their religion upon this barbaric land. Soon (before WWI) the Samurai culture was phased out in favor of westernized clothing, weapons, food, transportation, agriculture and so on. And while Japan is now thriving, the ancient culture that served them well for so many centuries has faded to the history books.
Change is inevitable and sometimes change is good and sometimes change just eradicates a rich history of a people. The Romans did the same thing to the northern Europeans who were tribal and (again) kept pretty much to themselves with the occasional raids.
Spain out of greed (again read: capitalism) nearly wiped out an entire culture in the Americas.
The English (among others) radically changed how African cultures had lived in just a few dozen decades.
Fast forward to post WWII and the two dominate cultures of capitalism and communism at war with each other over the ideals they each held. America got involved with Vietnam to help prevent the supposed threat of communism, when it really was just to enrich the growth of capitalism and the enormous profits that could be derived from war, a lesson learned from the previous world wars.

But I'm not trying to focus on capitalism itself per se, though it is in my topic heading it's an example of (forced) changing culturalism, the strongest example I can think of. Right now capitalism is all the rage in the middle east. The people who lived in a society of dictatorships and kings (who got rich via capitalism -- oil) are now getting tired of it and want their own piece of the "American Dream"... so they're having uprisings and wanting to throw the despots out. They woke up seeing how they're being abused and oppressed.
And here comes capitalism willing to help out. Why not stay out of it let them solve their own problems? Because it's an easy way to get a toe hold and plant your ideas, your culture into theirs to where eventually it becomes integrated and a part.
To use McDonalds as an example since it's first restaurant in 1940 it took 27 years before crossing the border into Canada and then 4 years after that it crossed the pacific (Japan). It showed up in Europe the same year and eventually landed in England 3 years later ('74). Coca-cola by the same means (if not time-line), now available in 200 countries.
What I see going on here is the inevitable growth towards a single culture a singular government via (for the moment) capitalism. Yet, you're hearing the words socialism a lot more often. The euro is now starting to show it's flaws (in Greece and Ireland) since it's attempt to create a single monetary system to make trade easier without having to worry about the value of the money changing according to supply and demand. There's talk of unifying America with it's continental neighbors.

We are on the verge of change but is it really a good thing?

Not so sure about all of this; the Japanese were influenced by the Chinese prior to the Europeans arriving and even though they are rather westernized and quite capitalistic they still have a rather strong culture that is most definitely Japanese

As to Spain wiping out the almost the entire culture in the Americas well they most certainly did wipe out a lot I believe it was about 2/3rds but most of that was due to the dieses that they brought with them. And the Europeans that settled in the Americas who later became Americans did their fair share of wiping out indigenous races

And Capitalism and Communism are not cultures Capitalism is an economic system and Communism is a sociopolitical movement they are not cultures. I am also not so sure the Middle East is changing at all it could simply be a power shift from one dictator to another and using America and freedom as an excuse and only time will tell there as to what is really going on.

Capitalism is an economic system characterized by private or corporate ownership of capital goods, by investments that are determined by private decision, and by prices, production, and the distribution of goods that are determined mainly by competition in a free market and there is a lot of that going on around the world but I truly do not think it is going to cause the blending of multiple cultures into one. Just take a good hard look at one of your examples, the Japanese. They are most certainly still a Japanese culture and a rather strong one at that and not becoming in any way shape of form part of the American culture simply because of Capitalism

And the Euro may be faltering and the Dollar going down but have you taken a look at the Yuan lately. The Chinese culture is incredibly strong, many have tried to crush it, including Mao but none have been able to and they are adopting form of Capitalism but they are still distinctly Chinese and Capitalism will not change that and here is another one. Most Western Nation, America being one of them, has to play by the Chinese rules if they want to do business in China and the same goes for Japan. If you want to play in those countries you have to play by their rules and that does not make a strong case for a homogenous society devoid of different cultures

And as for the last bit about the monkey and the jolt that comparison just does not work two completely different definitions of power. Besides there were other similar studies done with other animals that learned how to avoid the shock and still get the food but in those cased the current was in the floor.

 

[MA-Caver]

And as for the last bit about the monkey and the jolt that comparison just does not work two completely different definitions of power. Besides there were other similar studies done with other animals that learned how to avoid the shock and still get the food but in those cased the current was in the floor.

Power feels good doesn't it? Ever had a LOT of it? Over people I mean? There are people who do have that much power and boy doesn't it feel good to them. Good enough that they were/are VERY reluctant to let it go (read: Libya, Syria, Egypt and so forth).
Power is a stimulant, mental and emotional but still a stimulant.

 

[Xue Sheng]

I wouldn't say our takeaways are fast food lol, they take ages, best thing is to phone up then collect about an hour to an hour and a half later.

MA Caver, you're making th classic mistake of calling us the 'English' when referring to the British, it wasn't the English empire, it was the British Empire. In Africa we weren't the only colonialists, other countries had their colonies too.
I think it's a mistake to think Japan has changed totally, their culture and customs are still very different from others. It's also a mistake to think that the Arab Spring means the people want a piece of American capitalism, you'll find they will actually be turning to Muslim fundamentalism.

I can't see what you are getting at tbh, you are still speaking of capitalism as if it and Americanism were the same thing, you would be surprised to know how many capialist societies don't want to live the American way and nor do they. Sure there's McDs everywhere but America has absorbed far more of European culture than we have of yours, you speak English for a start and the second most spoken language by all accounts is Spanish another European language. the McDs thing is only on the surface, in Europe and I suspect most other countries including Japan, the native culture is deep set, we only pay lip service to American customs and habits that have caught on here.

The sun never sets on the British Empire

The British Empire would have been the only nation to colonize Africa if it were not for those pesky French, Italians, Germans, Belgians, Spain, Portuguese and Dutch

And I do believe yu are right about the Middel East, Americanism and Freedom is a good excuse though

The most widely spoken language on the planet, by far (by about 900,000,000 more than Spanish speakers), is Mandarin Chinese and you are right Spanish is number 2 and English is 3rd but only by about 1,000,000 less people than Spanish

 

[Xue Sheng]

Power feels good doesn't it? Ever had a LOT of it? Over people I mean? There are people who do have that much power and boy doesn't it feel good to them. Good enough that they were/are VERY reluctant to let it go (read: Libya, Syria, Egypt and so forth).
Power is a stimulant, mental and emotional but still a stimulant.

Different types of power, different reward, not the same, sorry it just does not work for me

You are comparing Power Defined as

1: ability to act or produce an effect (2): ability to get extra-base hits (3): capacity for being acted upon or undergoing an effect b: legal or official authority, capacity, or right
2: possession of control, authority, or influence over others b: one having such power; specifically: a sovereign state c: a controlling group : establishment —often used in the phrase the powers that be darchaic: a force of armed men echiefly dialect: a large number or quantity
3: physical might b: mental or moral efficacy c: political control or influence

In order to be the big Kahuna the guy in charge the big boss

With Power as defined as

a source or means of supplying energy; especially: electricity
b: motive power
c: the time rate at which work is done or energy emitted or transferred

I order to gain a euphoric feeling.

A bit like comparing masturbation to becoming Speaker of the house and it just does not work for me as far as comparisons go

 

[crushing]

McDonalds is a choice in France and buying Levi's in Russia is a choice. Local capitalist entrepeneurs have made these products accessible in their markets.

Does the economic system that allow the freedom to choose and society to change more or less dangerous than one that may restrict such freedom?

 

[Sukerkin]

Boudin noir.

'nuff said.

:Ewww: Aye. No argument from me on that one :nods:.

 

[Sukerkin]

As to the OP, I really do think that it is Democracy that we should be talking about rather than Capitalism.

The latter is just a way of playing the economic game that, via the profit motive, happens to produce quite efficient results in a focussed array of endeavours (some things it is terrible at).

It is the former that changes cultural mores, altho again only in certain specific ways. The Arab Spring, for example, is hopefully going to bring more democratic governance in Egypt and elsewhere. It is likely tho that these governments will not be carbon copies stamped from the pattern of Democracy forged in the British Isles. It will be their own form and quite rightly so.

 

[MA-Caver]

As to the OP, I really do think that it is Democracy that we should be talking about rather than Capitalism.

The latter is just a way of playing the economic game that, via the profit motive, happens to produce quite efficient results in a focussed array of endeavours (some things it is terrible at).

It is the former that changes cultural mores, altho again only in certain specific ways. The Arab Spring, for example, is hopefully going to bring more democratic governance in Egypt and elsewhere. It is likely tho that these governments will not be carbon copies stamped from the pattern of Democracy forged in the British Isles. It will be their own form and quite rightly so.

Yes (slap forehead) that is what I was trying to allude to... just to me Democracy and capitalism are almost synonymous. I mean if these were people trying to be a free society where free elections (snicker) and freedom to create whatever enterprise one wanted then okay, in their own way.

 

[Xue Sheng]

McDonalds is a choice in France and buying Levi's in Russia is a choice. Local capitalist entrepeneurs have made these products accessible in their markets.

Does the economic system that allow the freedom to choose and society to change more or less dangerous than one that may restrict such freedom?

Yup

Starbucks, McDonalds, Pizza Hut, Kentucky Fried Chicken and Papa Ginos are all in Beijing.

 

[MA-Caver]

Yup

Starbucks, McDonalds, Pizza Hut, Kentucky Fried Chicken and Papa Ginos are all in Beijing.

True that but are they managed as capitalists or communists?

 

[Xue Sheng]

True that but are they managed as capitalists or communists?

Private businesses not government.

And you may need to explain what you mean by managed as Capitalist to Managed as Communist because neither is a management style and I am not exactly sure what you are asking

 

[MA-Caver]

Private businesses not government.

And you may need to explain what you mean by managed as Capitalist to Managed as Communist because neither is a management style and I am not exactly sure what you are asking

Well to me capitalist management has always meant "for profit"... Communist ... well it's all for the people isn't it? So no profit or the profits go to the people via the government.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Well to me capitalist management has always meant "for profit"... Communist ... well it's all for the people isn't it? So no profit or the profits go to the people via the government.

It is for profit, the owner charges for a product or service, gets paid and puts the money in the bank. I don't think China or Communism is like you believe they are.

There is no communist society on the planet there are communist political parties that are much closer to Socialism in the way they rule than Communism as defines by Marx

There are a whole lot of very rich people in China these days making a whole lot of money from the business they either work in and/or run. I personally know many people there who make more than I do even after you convert the Yuan to American dollars

There are an awful lot of American Born Chinese returning to China to open businesses and in some cases they too are making scads of money. However, just like in the USA, you can pick a bad business to go into and go broke. However there is also a rather large gap in China between those with and those without money. There appears to be a growing middle class but it is rather small as compared to the very poor and very rich.