Connecticut Home Invasion

[Archangel M]

At one point "justice" was about making the victim whole (or at least as satisfied as he/she could be made) now "justice" is simply a function of the state where the victim may get to give a little "impact speech", but ultimately the state could care less. The state doesn't put away guys like this for what they did to this man and his family, they put them away as a matter of violation of statute. It's gotten to the point where some states have had to enact "victims rights amendments" to get some sort of mandated interaction between the victim and the prosecution. But even then there are no real guidelines mandating that the govt has to really listen.

Mind you Im not saying that that is not the way it probably should be, but have no illusion that "justice", means justice for YOU.

I would feel more pity towards a rabid dog being put down than I would for these two taking the needle.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

I would feel more pity towards a rabid dog being put down than I would for these two taking the needle.

Agreed. But the needle is sufficient; remove them from society permanently. There is nothing to be gained from setting their gonads on fire or whatever else it is some think should be done to them.

 

[CanuckMA]

Yes yes, I know and the arguments that Killing a 20 year old as Justice for his killing of an 80 year old doesn't even out because the 20 year old loses more life... I understand It is possible to pick nits that way or to place even value, i.e. one Physical Eye for one Physical Eye. The issue I have with breaking it down the way you outlined is that then a Noble or Politician's life would be worth more than a housewife or a farmer... and that's not right either. Pretty soon we start saying "Well, Blue Eyes are rarer than brown, so a person with brown eyes is worth less... that guy has black skin, its inferior to white skin, that guy has an IQ of 86, he had one of 149" etc...

In other words, it's not a perfect solution, but I like it as a guideline. It dictates to me that if you destroy my car, I can't stab you in the chest. Is that wrong? If so, I'd be happy to build a vengeance based model for my morals where I get to exact whatever punishment makes me FEEL BETTER about what you did to me, and to hell with how harsh it is, even if it means dropping a few carpet bombs on the entire neighborhood you live in because you spilled my beer in the bar...

No it's about the concept that physical retribution is not an alternative. A lot of the retribution was monetary. Now we lock people in jail.

The point is that people pointing to the Bible as justification for the death penalty have it wrong. When it came to the implememtation, it was just impossible to carry out.

 

[Ken Morgan]

Amen! Instead of having the DOT workers out there, in the hot weather, picking up trash on the side of the highway, make the inmates do it. Instead of giving them weight equipment to work out with, let them exercise by hard, manual labor.

While I agree criminals should work towards their up keep, gardens, livestock, laundry etc, you have to watch what you have them doing. Having them pick up trash along the HWY takes good jobs from hardworking folks. Yes it will save tax dollars, but you just put a bunch of people out of work, and now have essentially slaves doing the work. Possible not a good scenario.

 

[5-0 Kenpo]

While I agree criminals should work towards their up keep, gardens, livestock, laundry etc, you have to watch what you have them doing. Having them pick up trash along the HWY takes good jobs from hardworking folks. Yes it will save tax dollars, but you just put a bunch of people out of work, and now have essentially slaves doing the work. Possible not a good scenario.

In my mind, people are not owed a job. The job of the government should not be to ensure that citizens have jobs, but are kept safe, and their rights not infringed upon.

I have no problem with putting them out to contribute back to the society in some small measure that they have taken out of it. make them do all of the abolve, if they don't work, they don't eat. But we spent at least thousands of dollars for their transgression. They owe us that back, at the very least.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

In my mind, people are not owed a job. The job of the government should not be to ensure that citizens have jobs, but are kept safe, and their rights not infringed upon.

I have no problem with putting them out to contribute back to the society in some small measure that they have taken out of it. make them do all of the abolve, if they don't work, they don't eat. But we spent at least thousands of dollars for their transgression. They owe us that back, at the very least.

I am technically not against making inmates work to repay their debt to society (in the financial sense).

I would note that there has been a recent trend towards privatization of prisons and jails, and in such situations, there has been some movement towards putting inmates to work. And this creates two problems.

The first is that depending upon the type of work done, it can expose us to more risk. Prisoners on the outside of prison walls have to be supervised, and prisoners have escaped from such supervision, often with disastrous results.

The second is that once private industry begins to see inmates a profit center, there is at least the possibility that lobbyists will begin to lobby for stiffer sentences, more prisons, and harsher laws; not to make society safer, but to provide their employers with more free employees. Just sayin'...

http://www.usatoday.com/money/economy/employment/2004-07-06-call-center_x.htm

Inmates vs. outsourcingBy Jon Swartz, USA TODAY
ONTARIO, Ore. — David Day has a bounce in his step and a glint in his eye unexpected in someone who makes nearly 400 telemarketing calls a day for less than $200 a month. That's because he has a coveted job where few exist: behind bars.

Making license plates is one thing. Making telemarketing calls or answering photos as an online sales rep? Not so much. But it is happening, and it is growing.

 

[Blade96]

Shove em in jail and throw away the key.

(though there is a part of me that says hopes someone rapes them so they will know what it feels like.)

 

[MJS]

While I agree criminals should work towards their up keep, gardens, livestock, laundry etc, you have to watch what you have them doing. Having them pick up trash along the HWY takes good jobs from hardworking folks. Yes it will save tax dollars, but you just put a bunch of people out of work, and now have essentially slaves doing the work. Possible not a good scenario.

I understand what you're saying, however, that was simply 1 example of many. I think its safe to say that we could think of a number of things that they could do. OTOH, depending on the level of the prisoner, ie: 1-5, 5 being the worst offender, we probably wouldnt want certain inmates out of the prison anyways.

As for the slave comment....this reminds me of another thread on here, where the topic was...if a student wasnt able to afford the monthly fee, could they spend 30min after class, helping to clean the dojo. A few thought that was boarderline child abuse. I disagree.

In closing, I'll refer back to Sheriff Joe. Some people could say that what he does is abuse. Again, I disagree. The key lies in where you draw the line....you can get juuuuust close enough.

 

[5-0 Kenpo]

I am technically not against making inmates work to repay their debt to society (in the financial sense).

I would note that there has been a recent trend towards privatization of prisons and jails, and in such situations, there has been some movement towards putting inmates to work. And this creates two problems.

The first is that depending upon the type of work done, it can expose us to more risk. Prisoners on the outside of prison walls have to be supervised, and prisoners have escaped from such supervision, often with disastrous results.

The second is that once private industry begins to see inmates a profit center, there is at least the possibility that lobbyists will begin to lobby for stiffer sentences, more prisons, and harsher laws; not to make society safer, but to provide their employers with more free employees. Just sayin'...

http://www.usatoday.com/money/economy/employment/2004-07-06-call-center_x.htm



Making license plates is one thing. Making telemarketing calls or answering photos as an online sales rep? Not so much. But it is happening, and it is growing.

I agree with you. I think that the jobs that they do should be carefully considered before undertaking them. I don't necessarily think there should be a profit motive. Any job that they undertake should be for the benefit of the state, not private corporations.

In California, we have a Level system, 1-4. Level 1 is the low level, petty type crimes, and level 4 is the murderers, rapists, etc. Also, while you are inside, based on your behavior, your level can change, mostly for the worst, sometime to a lesser level. The types of jobs that an inmate can do would take such levels into consideration.

 

[MJS]

http://www.courant.com/community/ch...heshire-home-invasion-verdict,0,2650867.story