concepts in self-defense

[aquadancer]

Hi. I just joined, and am ignorant of self-defense/martial arts. I wanted to learn some self-defense methods, and went on a site that taught me some good things, but didn't go beyond the mental info, wouldn't even give a few techniques for breaking away and running. The site said that 95% of all violent incidents could be avoided. The site put great emphasis on the threat of going to jail if you didn't defend just right in the eyes of the law. When I would ask a question about how to defend against some violent act, I got a lecture of how I could get in trouble with the law if I did so. I became so fearful of jail that I doubted my previous mindsets that had been helpful in some
situations and was in fear because I didn't know what to do if there was an encounter. The duty to retreat law was oft brought up. When I pressed for some physical techniques I was told I was overwhelmed with fear [I hadn't felt overwhelmed], and would become a target and bad things would happen. That really scared me.
I would appreciate knowing what your opinions are regarding these things.
thank you.
aquadancer

 

[MJS]

Hi. I just joined, and am ignorant of self-defense/martial arts. I wanted to learn some self-defense methods, and went on a site that taught me some good things, but didn't go beyond the mental info, wouldn't even give a few techniques for breaking away and running. The site said that 95% of all violent incidents could be avoided. The site put great emphasis on the threat of going to jail if you didn't defend just right in the eyes of the law. When I would ask a question about how to defend against some violent act, I got a lecture of how I could get in trouble with the law if I did so. I became so fearful of jail that I doubted my previous mindsets that had been helpful in some
situations and was in fear because I didn't know what to do if there was an encounter. The duty to retreat law was oft brought up. When I pressed for some physical techniques I was told I was overwhelmed with fear [I hadn't felt overwhelmed], and would become a target and bad things would happen. That really scared me.
I would appreciate knowing what your opinions are regarding these things.
thank you.
aquadancer

Welcome to the forum. My suggestion, if you already havent already, would be to figure out what you want out of your training. Then figure out what type of training in your area offers what you're looking for.

If you're looking at dvds, books, tapes, and online sources, ie: those website that claim that they'll show you some super secret deadly moves, I'd suggest you forget about all that. A) you can't learn from a dvd. You need a real teacher. B) there are no super secret deadly moves, and if there were, everyone would be training with that person. All those people want is your money, nothing more.

As for the 95% claim...well, I'd take that with a grain of salt. Will you get in trouble if you defend yourself? I'd suggest finding out the Sd laws for the state that you live in, and talk to someone who can answer those questions for you.

 

[aquadancer]

MJS,
Thank you for this input. When I first went on the net to find self-defense instruction, it was and still is, for the purpose of learning moves that will help me in an unavoidable violent encounter. I am a smaller woman, 5'2", slim. I decided to not go the way of such arts as Karate because they take so long and involve many repetitious forms, or at least that is what happened at the local Karate school. I am older, with a family history of arthritis and some arthritis from sports injuries. When I do too many reps I find a new arthritic site. I am looking to learn as quickly as possible fighting moves . I realize there will be practice and reps, but I am looking for something that will make good fighting use of most moves, rather than moves that are mostly form and art or for competition. I like those things, but don't think my body will profit from the reps. I have had to cut my own work-outs from 3x10 to 2x8 and even then it can be aggravating. As for a school, I am in a rural area and the only one teaches karate with emphasis on form, art, and tournaments.
Would practice with a good book, that kind of thing, not be of any value? As for self-defence concepts I spoke of, why would that site, which says it is a self-defense site owned by a person who's been a body guard, street fighter, ect, say 95% of violence is avoidable, and just talk about being aware, ect, all good things, without going into what to do in a physical encounter?
aquadancer

 

[oaktree]

Hi aquadancer,
I will give my input.

. I wanted to learn some self-defense methods, and went on a site that taught me some good things, but didn't go beyond the mental info, wouldn't even give a few techniques for breaking away and running

It may have been the sites intent to do this.
There are many sites out there some use certain hooks and marketing tactics to draw a person in. There may be many reasons why they did not list "how to".

The site said that 95% of all violent incidents could be avoided

I have no idea where they get 95% from. But in most cases
violent situations can be avoided by 1.avoiding certain areas 2.understanding things to look for 3. How to use verbal communication
And many other key factors that can result in either defusing a situation.

The site put great emphasis on the threat of going to jail if you didn't defend just right in the eyes of the law.

If you are defending yourself and the reason is justified and the force is reasonable then you should be fine. I rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6.

When I would ask a question about how to defend against some violent act, I got a lecture of how I could get in trouble with the law if I did so

You have the right to defend your life from harm as long as the amount of force is reasonable, justified and not excessive you should be fine. Worrying about what a law might do or the slim chance of being found guility to warrant jail time because you used reasonable force,justified and not excessive is an invalided argument for defending your life from harm or death.

I became so fearful of jail that I doubted my previous mindsets that had been helpful in some
situations and was in fear because I didn't know what to do if there was an encounter

I understand and if you feel worried about this. My advice is to talk to a Lawyer who knows your state laws.

The duty to retreat law was oft brought up. When I pressed for some physical techniques I was told I was overwhelmed with fear [

Not every martial art or technique has to be a merciless attack on your opponent. It can be a simple punch to the face followed by a rear naked choke. This is reasonable justified and not excessive force for someone trying to rape you hell, beating the guy repeatly for trying to rape you in the face may not be seen as excessive.

When I first went on the net to find self-defense instruction, it was and still is, for the purpose of learning moves that will help me in an unavoidable violent encounter. I am a smaller woman, 5'2", slim

Using videos off the net can be very dangerous. When you are in a class room with a teacher you have a fully resistant opponent to practice it on.

I decided to not go the way of such arts as Karate because they take so long and involve many repetitious forms, or at least that is what happened at the local Karate school.

Maybe that school emphasis was on forms maybe if you explained to the teacher he had a street self defense program. There are these types of classes every where now a days. I am sure if you go to different schools and explained what you are looking for they will help you find what you are looking for. Maybe private lessons would help. Many options really.

I realize there will be practice and reps, but I am looking for something that will make good fighting use of most moves, rather than moves that are mostly form and art or for competition.

Just about any martial arts will teach this if you speak to the teacher.
It may be something private that he teaches the emphasis of this.
To be fair Karate such as Kyokushin has forms but as alot of fighting forms and can be considered a no ******** art.

I want to speak about my injuries I have tendonitis in both wrist from breaking my wrist so many times at times I can not hold a pencil to write with. I have broken fingers toes ankles and I have some age too in fact many of us have injuries and limitations after all we are human too hehe.
So do not be afraid to engage in an art because of your injury but make sure you do so safety.

As for a school, I am in a rural area and the only one teaches karate with emphasis on form, art, and tournaments.

Maybe someone here if they know the area knows someone who is teaching next to you. Not many advertise sometimes it is word of mouth. Also it may be you have to travel I have gone to other cities before believe me it is normal.

Would practice with a good book, that kind of thing, not be of any value?

Usually no because you do not know if you are doing it correctly. You MAY be able to have some sort of technique from it but without a teacher you will not know if 1. It is being done correctly 2. Will it work in a real situation.

As for self-defence concepts I spoke of, why would that site, which says it is a self-defense site owned by a person who's been a body guard, street fighter, ect, say 95% of violence is avoidable, and just talk about being aware, ect, all good things, without going into what to do in a physical encounter?

Many reasons. Let say it does show you a self defense move, you try it out and get killed well guess who gets sued for not putting up a disclaimer. 95% is a statstic without a source it is as real as saying:

"99.9% of unicorns" exist" -source The I just made-it up institute

 

[MJS]

MJS,
Thank you for this input. When I first went on the net to find self-defense instruction, it was and still is, for the purpose of learning moves that will help me in an unavoidable violent encounter. I am a smaller woman, 5'2", slim. I decided to not go the way of such arts as Karate because they take so long and involve many repetitious forms, or at least that is what happened at the local Karate school. I am older, with a family history of arthritis and some arthritis from sports injuries. When I do too many reps I find a new arthritic site. I am looking to learn as quickly as possible fighting moves . I realize there will be practice and reps, but I am looking for something that will make good fighting use of most moves, rather than moves that are mostly form and art or for competition. I like those things, but don't think my body will profit from the reps. I have had to cut my own work-outs from 3x10 to 2x8 and even then it can be aggravating. As for a school, I am in a rural area and the only one teaches karate with emphasis on form, art, and tournaments.
Would practice with a good book, that kind of thing, not be of any value? As for self-defence concepts I spoke of, why would that site, which says it is a self-defense site owned by a person who's been a body guard, street fighter, ect, say 95% of violence is avoidable, and just talk about being aware, ect, all good things, without going into what to do in a physical encounter?
aquadancer

You'd probably be better doing something like Krav Maga, although I'd make sure I researched the school. My other option would be to go do the Karate school, talk to the inst., explain your situation, and see if you could do some private lessons, focusing on what you're looking for. Out of curiosity, what type of Karate school is it? Karate is pretty much an open ended word.

As for the books...I would say no, but thats just my opinion. You're free to do as you wish. Why do I say no? IMO, books, dvds, etc, are good reference tools, but as a sole learning tool...not so good IMO. Example: I do Kenpo. It'd be fairly easy for me to pick up one of Larry Tatums dvds, and get some fine points off it. But my wife, whos never done any MA training, would probably be lost. Could you pick up some moves? Sure. Will you be able to execute them effectively, without a teacher? Maybe, maybe not. IMO, when it comes to defending yourself, its best to go with someone who can teach you correctly.

Its easy to say what you should/should not do, in a SD situation, but listening to what you're saying about that site....well, I'd stay away. Sure, someone could tell you how to avoid a situation, give tips on awareness, etc., but what happens when that doesnt work? Again, you're free to do as you wish, but I'd avoid it, as it sounds like the guy just wants money.

 

[Gemini]

First, aquadancer, welcome to the forum.
Getting past the "avoid" part, which has been well covered, I also have to agree with MJS for his seasoning why we don't do this through books and such. I couldn't have said it better so I'll leave it there.

You really haven't provided much information to go on. I assume that's for security purposes, but it's a very difficult question to answer without more particulars.

Anyone can defend themselves. To what degree depends on a lot of things. Regardless, you have to take stock in what you have to work with and the better you recognize and understand the limitations of those parameters, the better chance you have to do well. Your age, health, size, intelligence, surroundings, potential instructors, etc, all come into play and none of them are constants.

You say you have a local karate school. Well, if that's really all you have, than you need to talk to the instructor. Any martial art can teach you techniques that can help you. It is the single common ground we all have here. Is it the best for you? I can't answer that. It doesn't take many techniques. It's better to do a few things well than to do a lot of things so-so. Basic strikes and strike points are not hard to learn.

First I would try a wider search of what you have available in your area. If you're not familiar with martial arts, there are probably schools fairly close that you may not even recognize. Look at all the arts on the home page of the forums here and do a search. Let's find out what you REALLy have to work with.

 

[aquadancer]

Hi aquadancer,



If you are defending yourself and the reason is justified and the force is reasonable then you should be fine. I rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6.

You have the right to defend your life from harm as long as the amount of force is reasonable, justified and not excessive you should be fine. Worrying about what a law might do or the slim chance of being found guility to warrant jail time because you used reasonable force,justified and not excessive is an invalided argument for defending your life from harm or death.
--------
. I will think about it. Honestly, I set store by that site, and am still anxious about the dangers of the law. The site owner was very convincing, so I appreciate this new opinion.

I understand and if you feel worried about this. My advice is to talk to a Lawyer who knows your state laws.
----------
A lawyer, now there's a guy I know wants my money! lol


Not every martial art or technique has to be a merciless attack on your opponent. It can be a simple punch to the face followed by a rear naked choke. This is reasonable justified and not excessive force for someone trying to rape you hell, beating the guy repeatly for trying to rape you in the face may not be seen as excessive.
---------
Judging how hard to hit, or kick, assault a joint, don't these things take alot of experience? I'd be afraid, just employ what I'd learned, which could be a kick a cop might think was too hard, but I'd just be doing the best I could to defend myself. It just seems like too much is being asked of untrained or relatively untrained folks by the law. If someone stopped fighting I wouldn't continue once they seemed subdued, things like that. But when trading strikes or kicks I'd kick for all I'm worth.
------




Maybe that school emphasis was on forms maybe if you explained to the teacher he had a street self defense program.
--------
I did. They didn't. Like I said, I am in a rural area, only one dojo.


Just about any martial arts will teach this if you speak to the teacher.
It may be something private that he teaches the emphasis of this.
To be fair Karate such as Kyokushin has forms but as alot of fighting forms and can be considered a no ******** art.

I want to speak about my injuries I have tendonitis in both wrist from breaking my wrist so many times at times I can not hold a pencil to write with. I have broken fingers toes ankles and I have some age too in fact many of us have injuries and limitations after all we are human too hehe.
So do not be afraid to engage in an art because of your injury but make sure you do so safety.
-----
Good to know others have some health concerns. I don't want to ever stop working out, but do have to tailor the sessions to suit the arthritis I got when I was running, the hip injury [healed] I got doing lunges wrong [oh, I'm still young(in my mind), it doesn't matter if technique is off], ect.

Maybe someone here if they know the area knows someone who is teaching next to you. Not many advertise sometimes it is word of mouth. Also it may be you have to travel I have gone to other cities before believe me it is normal.

Thank you especially for the comment about the 95%. When I think about it, it had no better source than his saying the cops and other pros he spoke with said 95% of all violent crime is avoidable.
what has me so upset is here is an expert I really respected saying "you have overwhelming fear, and if you don't control it you'll be a target and bad things will happen."Scared me.
Thanks alot for this input.
aquadancer

 

[aquadancer]

You'd probably be better doing something like Krav Maga, although I'd make sure I researched the school.
-----------
What a coincidence that you'd mention Krav Maga. After reading about alot of different arts on the net that was what I came up with. But I don't think I have the necessary ability to be really good at it because it stresses simultaneous defense and assault. I am just not that fast and coordinated. So I am looking for something that has some of its features, and the shorter to the point combatative training, without the similtaneous moves. Know of anything--anyone?
Its easy to say what you should/should not do, in a SD situation, but listening to what you're saying about that site....well, I'd stay away. Sure, someone could tell you how to avoid a situation, give tips on awareness, etc., but what happens when that doesnt work? Again, you're free to do as you wish, but I'd avoid it, as it sounds like the guy just wants money.

I don't know about that, but that's good advice, as I ended up confused and upset.
aquadancer

 

[Carol]

Thank you especially for the comment about the 95%. When I think about it, it had no better source than his saying the cops and other pros he spoke with said 95% of all violent crime is avoidable.
what has me so upset is here is an expert I really respected saying "you have overwhelming fear, and if you don't control it you'll be a target and bad things will happen."Scared me.
Thanks alot for this input.
aquadancer

Forgive me for being blunt (Nothing personal here, I'm just a very direct person that is not good at being tactful)...that was a horrible thing to say to a beginner.


"you have overwhelming fear, and if you don't control it you'll be a target and bad things will happen." -- this sounds more manipulative/abusive than anything else. A competent teacher will attract students based on their skill, and the accomplishments of the students -- not by using scare tactics.

There is an excellent book available through Amazon or at book stores, its called The Gift Of Fear, by Gavin DeBecker. The book rubs a few people the wrong way (he takes a harsh stance against firearms, for example) but he does an excellent job of how you can use your own fear and your own intuition to keep yourself safe. It is a self-protection book, not necessarily a martial arts book per se. Because he does not get in to the mechanics of combat, this is information that you could potentially absorb and utilize, whether or not you have a teacher.

Best of luck to you. I am also 5' 2", and have had bad legs/hips since birth. I completely relate.

 

[aquadancer]

Forgive me for being blunt (Nothing personal here, I'm just a very direct person that is not good at being tactful)...that was a horrible thing to say to a beginner.


"you have overwhelming fear, and if you don't control it you'll be a target and bad things will happen." -- this sounds more manipulative/abusive than anything else. A competent teacher will attract students based on their skill, and the accomplishments of the students -- not by using scare tactics.



Best of luck to you. I am also 5' 2", and have had bad legs/hips since birth. I completely relate.

Carol, your post--just what the doc ordered. Thank you.
aquadancer

 

[oaktree]

Hi Aquadancer

I set store by that site, and am still anxious about the dangers of the law.

Is it possible to post a link here for us to look at?
It is understandable about the laws I think alot of people are concerned about it. Laws vary by state so it can be difficult to give advice.
Usually when you are being attacked and you decided to defend notice I (did not say strike back) was the defense justified for the type of attack you used?(He threw a punch you blocked it hit his face and restrained him)

Was the force reasonable for the situation?(He grabbed your wrist and you emptied and reloaded your entire gun ammo rounds into him)

And was it excessive force meaning (did you break the guys arms legs and fingers because you wanted to try a new move out).

A lawyer, now there's a guy I know wants my money!

A lawyer is there to give you legal counsel. If you have to shell out $100 for an hour so he can explain the law of your state to you on self defense and give you peace of mind well $100 is pretty cheap for that I think.

Judging how hard to hit, or kick, assault a joint, don't these things take alot of experience?

Depends on what you are doing. Any person or even a primate can make a fist and strike someone with it. However, being able to inflict higher damage and higher percentage of success on the strike requires training and practice under a teacher.

If you watch street fights (you can look on youtube) Most of the people are untrained however they have the ability to inflict damage and in some cases inflict great damage but also if you notice they throw random punches with out a tactic and usually eats as many punches as the person throws.

I'd be afraid, just employ what I'd learned, which could be a kick a cop might think was too hard, but I'd just be doing the best I could to defend myself.

Well in a violent encounter you most likely are not going to be there for when a officer shows up.
1. you strike and run 2. You strike he runs 3. You strike him and hold him while cops come and explain the situation to the police. 4.a variable of the 1-3. I am not a uniformed officer so maybe a uniformed officer could tell you what he/she would do in the situation.

But again better to be breathing then be dead when the officer finds you.

It just seems like too much is being asked of untrained or relatively untrained folks by the law.

Not entirely. The laws understand that if some crazy guy attacks you that you do not have to stand there and let him murder you because you thought you would go to jail. Now if he attacks you and you defend yourself and he is unconcious and you pick up a rock and just keep on beating him with it until he is dead well that might be considered excessive force and maybe you do have to go to jail and maybe get convicted.

If someone stopped fighting I wouldn't continue once they seemed subdued, things like that. But when trading strikes or kicks I'd kick for all I'm worth

There you go you understand reasonable defensive. You defended yourself the attacker stopped and you stopped.
If he stopped and you kept attacking him it might be considered excessive force.

I did. They didn't. Like I said, I am in a rural area, only one dojo.

If you can list the area around you maybe someone knows a school within a 25 mile radius. Sometimes people do not advertise but word of mouth people know.

Thank you especially for the comment about the 95%. When I think about it, it had no better source than his saying the cops and other pros he spoke with said 95% of all violent crime is avoidable.

I do not know if you can really give a stat like that.
Majority of fights are yes avoidable a calm mind and common sense can become one of the most valuable self defense tools out there.

what has me so upset is here is an expert I really respected saying "you have overwhelming fear, and if you don't control it you'll be a target and bad things will happen."Scared me.

Carol's book is an excellent I highly recommend it.

 

[bluewaveschool]

They are right about schools being under the radar and not advertising, just word of mouth. My school is under the radar, mostly bc the YMCA never advertises us. There is a school in town everyone knows about, then there is my class. I've gotten several new students word of mouth of late. Let us know a general area, lot of people on here know instructors all over the US.

 

[BloodMoney]

Art wise I would 100% recommend Krav Maga for realistic womens self defense. I would also say Wing Chun (seeing as it was developed by a woman) as its very effective for street self defense. Karate and other external, more strength based, arts I wouldnt recommend, especially if your not young and sprite like you used to be!

One thing I tell my students is that fitness is a really good self defense tool, in addition to being healthy and good for you. If you can just sprint off really fast, and keep that running up, that will get you out of heaps of situations, honestly. Not saying dont bother with MA, of course you cant just run away from every situation, but just putting it out there because its an often overlooked (and easy) skill that can save yer a***

 

[WC_lun]

Drilling for drilling sake and monotonous form work just for sake of learning a form is indeed wasteful for someone practicing with a self-defense mind set. However, in a authentic self-defense school, tools such as drilling and form work is done to train your body to move a certain way, so that it becomes instinctual instead of a product of higher brain activity. For instance, sinking into a stance with my knees bent, hips tucked, and ready to move is a product of training, not me thinking, "oh, I'm about to use my martial arts, I had better get in a good fighting stance." Unfortunately, for those with physical limitations, that means a lot of repitition to train the body.

You can learn bits and pieces of self-defense from DVDs, books, and schools who don't really teach it well. What you learn from these sources might even work if you need to defend yourself. When my health is on the line, I don't want to rely on "might" though. Too increase your ability to defend yourself, you MUST put in the work and also get used to the speed and brutality of violence. There is no substitute for quality training. There is no quick way to do it.

As far as legal repurcussions of defending yourslef, I wouldn't worry about that. Most people when using violence to defnd themselves will not resort to unreasonable force. That is the guiding thought. Was the force reasonable? If you are scared and fighting for your life, That leaves a large window. Now having said that, if you do something like knock a guy down then curb him, yeah your gonna get in some trouble. I'm assuming your a reasonable, well adjusted, individual who wouldn't do anything like that

 

[wushuguy]

If you have a friend who wants to learn with you, it can also be easier to start and stick with the training.

Krav Maga is good, simple, direct. Escrima can be direct and quickly effective if you find the right instructor as well. Looking around your area, some times a good instructor isn't easily found, like not listed on the phone book, or no website, etc. If you post your general location (unless I had missed that post), perhaps someone in your city can point you to an instructor. After that you can do a little research about him or her to see how their students feel about their training, their confidence, and what kind of training they do.

Being of a smaller frame, it is wise to see if the instructor also has students with smaller frame as well of if him or her self is also of smaller frame, because they will be more inclined to take it into account when teaching you as some things may be modified or done differently according to our physical frame and limits.

Also, if you are looking into just short term classes, perhaps the local college or police department gives self-defense courses, like a rape prevention and awareness course, or a situational defense course.

In a proper self-defense class, you'll learn to recognize how much force is needed to stop an attacker, don't worry about the legalities, saving your life is more important. I really hate when people say if you defend yourself you'll go to jail. that kind of mentality will prevent one from adapting to an escalating situation, for example, if the guy robbed you and decides he wants to stab you anyway, that mentality will likely come into play and you'll let him stab you because you'd be afraid to hurt him and go to jail.

It is good to know clearly where you want to be in an altercation (alive and well) and the class you take should help you achieve that goal in case you do get into some trouble.

 

[frank raud]

5'2"? Female? Melissa Soalt aka Dr Ruthless is the way to go, imho.

 

[aquadancer]

Hi Aquadancer

Is it possible to post a link here for us to look at?
It is understandable about the laws I think alot of people are concerned about it. Laws vary by state so it can be difficult to give advice.

Oaktree, thanks so much for all of your reply. I do not want to name the website. There were good things on the site, too. If it were obviously a charlatan's site it would be different. But in this kind of thing it isn't that easy for me to know motivations, and I don't want to put someone up for criticism loosely.

A lawyer is there to give you legal counsel. If you have to shell out $100 for an hour so he can explain the law of your state to you on self defense and give you peace of mind well $100 is pretty cheap for that I think.

IF you get the information you want. "you ask for what you want, and you pay for what you get." from Maya Angelou.

Well in a violent encounter you most likely are not going to be there for when a officer shows up.
1. you strike and run 2. You strike he runs 3. You strike him and hold him while cops come and explain the situation to the police. 4.a variable of the 1-3. I am not a uniformed officer so maybe a uniformed officer could tell you what he/she would do in the situation.

Hadn't thought of that. Being small, I'd be running. Assume even if he/she could id me, the fact I ran would be in my favor to some extent. But what if you do injure someone while returning a punch or kick? It could look like you were excessive, tho you were just defending. These are things tying me in knots since seeing that website. I had thought proving self defense had to do with someone else starting the fight, witnesses,motivations, ect. I didn't think one had to worry over every aspect of their physica returns, as the site I spoke of seems to say. This is probably a conversation that should be its own topic over in the General Self Defense forum, which I have just discovered. It is larger and more complex than I thought. As well, it seems others have questions about it too. Just lurking there I see aspects of this kind of thing being discussed.

Good points, helped me clarify.
aquadancer

 

[aquadancer]

5'2"? Female? Melissa Soalt aka Dr Ruthless is the way to go, imho.

Frank, sounds intriguing. I am new to the forum and martial arts. What is it Dr.Ruthless is known for?

aquadancer

 

[oaktree]

Oaktree, thanks so much for all of your reply. I do not want to name the website. There were good things on the site, too. If it were obviously a charlatan's site it would be different. But in this kind of thing it isn't that easy for me to know motivations, and I don't want to put someone up for criticism loosely.

You are welcome that is what the site is designed for well I think thats why Mr.Hubbard designed it for.

Fair enough about mentioning the site a caveat emptor indeed.

IF you get the information you want. "you ask for what you want, and you pay for what you get." from Maya Angelou.

Interesting that Maya Angelou wrote a story about boxing.
It is a very good read and the use of metaphors by her really are excellent in the writing. The story is called Champions of the world.

Hadn't thought of that. Being small, I'd be running. Assume even if he/she could id me, the fact I ran would be in my favor to some extent. But what if you do injure someone while returning a punch or kick?

In the violent encounters I have been and seen they were 1.very fast 2.People just watched 3. No cops came 4. usually either someone was on the floor or someone ran away. If cops were called victim and attacker were either A.both gone or B.one or the other was gone depending how hurt.
If the police asked questions usually people would say they saw nothing or give a vague contradicting story.

As you saw in Frank Raud clip she attacked fast and ran. If you want to hold him down in a restraint and call the cops and press charges and go thru the court system that is up to you.

Who says you even have to punch or kick him:
Mr.John Painter of the Jiulong Baguazhang

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ErBfDEe3LFI&feature=related

Marjan Trajkovski performing Aikido(with some club music oh well..)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nb2878GpLZI&feature=related

It could look like you were excessive, tho you were just defending. These are things tying me in knots since seeing that website

I can not comment to much law officers who have experience here can say what they think when they respond to a call and see it.
I would think you would be questioned to determine what is going on.
But again we are talking about defending your life here and you have the right to do this if you feel your life is threaten.

had thought proving self defense had to do with someone else starting the fight, witnesses,motivations, ect. I didn't think one had to worry over every aspect of their physica returns, as the site I spoke of seems to say.

In most cases self defense has to be someone else starting the fight. Meaning someone else threw the first strike at you or you felt your life was in danger and you had to strike first.

The question begins was this force necessary?
Was this force reasonable and justified?
Was the force being uses excessive?

If you are being attacked and the attacker throws a punch
and you block the punch and strike him in the face and kick his leg out making him fall. The force was necessary,reasonable amount of force and justified. The force is not excessive.

If you are being attacked and the attacker throws a punch
and you block the punch strike him in the face then in the throat,then 3 knees to the groin,followed by a shoulder throw then break his arm and then each finger and keep hitting him to a bloody pulp well that may be considered : unnecessary force, unreasonable and excessive.

You are only suppose to use the amount of force to the threat.
If some guy calls you a name and says how he will beat you up but is just standing there and not coming at you and you empty your whole ammo into him,reload and empty again into his dead body then no it is not justifed,reasonable and is excessive hell maybe it is manslaughter.

On the same token I have heard that if a 350 lb linebacker type guy attacks a frail old lady then her using a gun is reasonable,justified
but if a man of equal weight and size used the weapon then it is not considered reasonable,justified on an unarmed person. I am not sure if this is true I never asked a lawyer about it.

That is why talking to a lawyer is so important and this is very true when thinking of purchasing a weapon.

 

[seasoned]

Frank, sounds intriguing. I am new to the forum and martial arts. What is it Dr.Ruthless is known for?

aquadancer

After looking at the video Frank provided, I would say it specks for itself. Although martial arts should teach us to be a bit "Ruthless" in our application, not all schools do. Once there is a perceived threat, we need to do everything within our power to terminate that threat. This takes mental fortitude, and the will to follow through, that hopefully a good martial arts dojo will provide.:asian: