Conception by deception

[Big Don]

[FONT=times, times new roman][SIZE=+2]Conception[/SIZE] [SIZE=+2]by [/SIZE][SIZE=+2]deception[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-2]WHY DO WOMEN GET AWAY WITH "ACCIDENTALLY" GETTING PREGNANT -- WHEN IF A MAN TRIED TO PULL THE SAME MANIPULATIVE STUNT, HE'D BE BOBBITTED? [/SIZE] [/FONT][FONT=times, times new roman][SIZE=-1]BY TRACY QUAN[/SIZE] [/FONT][FONT=times, times new roman][SIZE=-2]SALON | Sept. 23, 1998[/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=times, times new roman] | EXCERPT:[/FONT]
[FONT=times, times new roman]"In a relationship, you reach a point where the woman's going to get pregnant on you, unless you stop seeing her, and that's what was happening with Kim." [/FONT]
[FONT=times, times new roman]David, a programmer in his 30s, is a year younger than me, and we've known each other since infancy. But as I listen, I momentarily have to remind myself that we grew up in the same era. Throughout my sex life, aware that previous generations of women had almost no control over their fertility, I have taken comfort in the way technology protects me from the whims of nature. Yet David seems to think his sex partners are as untrustworthy as nature itself. [/FONT]
[FONT=times, times new roman](Names and other personal information about sources in this story have been changed.) [/FONT]
[FONT=times, times new roman]David's assertion that sooner or later his girlfriend would "get pregnant on" him makes him sound like a throwback to the Eisenhower era. In some circles, the fashionable view is that males are responsible for unwanted pregnancies. A public service ad aimed at young women features a manipulative teenage boy pressuring his girlfriend to prove her love by having risky sex, but there are no Planned Parenthood posters warning young males about girls who say they're on the Pill when they're not. [/FONT]
[FONT=times, times new roman]These days, when a man blames a woman for getting pregnant, he is likely to be dismissed as a Deadbeat Dad. There's some reason for this: Prominent among the men who accuse women of "tricking" them into fatherhood are athletes and other celebrities who ignore their own kids while seeking to discredit the mothers who raise them. [/FONT]
[FONT=times, times new roman]But public health ads and tawdry headlines don't always capture the emotional nuances, the many things left unsaid, in people's relationships. These familiar stereotypes of low-life Lotharios and scheming gold-diggers don't always explain how males can become fathers accidentally by design -- woman's design. [/FONT]
[FONT=times, times new roman]When I was in my early 20s, a boyfriend informed me that his buddy -- a devoted father and husband, as far as I could tell -- had been "screwed": Apparently, he had become a father because his wife had lied about using her diaphragm. I was never sure what to make of this: If the woman had really done this, why did she ever admit the ruse to her husband? Was she an Amoral Supermom -- so determined to exercise her "fertility rights" that her partner's wishes barely registered? Did she ever feel guilty? These weren't questions I could ask her on our next double date.
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[FONT=times, times new roman]<<<SNIP>>>[/FONT]
[FONT=times, times new roman]The prevailing assumption in the '90s has been that risky sex is imposed on women by men. But condoms can present a special etiquette problem for males, if they hope to keep getting laid. Frequently, men are discouraged from using condoms by the women in their lives -- a problem that most public health campaigns simply don't acknowledge. Andrew, now in his 40s, remembers telling the woman he lived with during his 30s that he would never want children. "Janet basically did not like condoms," he says, when I suggest that he was remiss not to use them. "She had tried the Pill and had to stop for health reasons. After a pregnancy scare, I went out and bought two or three different kinds of condoms along with some water-soluble lube, but she didn't want to use them." They relied on a diaphragm, which she may or may not have been wearing when she became pregnant during the third year of their relationship. After an abortion -- "the worst possible outcome, in Janet's mind, because she hoped I would come around to wanting a child" -- the relationship couldn't continue. [/FONT]
[FONT=times, times new roman]Should Andrew have insisted on condoms? Could he be expected to, when Janet objected? And how many reasonable men would impose a particular device on a woman? Telling a woman that you don't trust her to use birth control is not, in most people's minds, an option. More than once, I've been asked by a man how to deal with a girlfriend who urges him to stop using condoms for sentimental or erotic reasons. And David points out that, after dating for a while, "a lot of women are slightly insulted if you keep using condoms."
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[FONT=times, times new roman]END EXCERPT[/FONT]
[FONT=times, times new roman]Very interesting article. Having had an ex-wife who faked a pregnancy and miscarriage, and several ex-girlfriends who refused to use condoms, I've seen a lot of this. What are your thoughts?
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[granfire]

let me see:

There are choices.

And if a man never wants children...he could have his tubes tied if the 'Chapot Anglaise' is not accepted....

 

[crushing]

[FONT=times, times new roman]Very interesting article. Having had an ex-wife who faked a pregnancy and miscarriage, and several ex-girlfriends who refused to use condoms, I've seen a lot of this. What are your thoughts?[/FONT]

This is one of those areas where there doesn't seem to be a link between rights and responsibilities, or, if there is one they are inversely proportional for the male with a heavy tilt towards responsibilities.

If the sex results in a pregnancy, the pregnancy can be terminated with the man not having a legal say. Or, the woman could choose to have the child and the man would be on the hook for child support, without having a legal say. Until there are reproductive equal rights, a man has got to bag it until he reaches a point in his life where he wants children or snip it if he is sure he never wants to have children.

 

[Empty Hands]

If the sex results in a pregnancy, the pregnancy can be terminated with the man not having a legal say. Or, the woman could choose to have the child and the man would be on the hook for child support, without having a legal say. Until there are reproductive equal rights...

There never will be and never can be "equal reproductive rights" in this sense. Not unless men can figure out how to get themselves pregnant, anyways. In a society that values freedom and the right of bodily integrity, as well as responsibility for one's children, this is always the way it has to be. Complain to God if you like.

Men have control over their own bodies, as women do. So they must take responsibility for their own fertility. If the women they are with cannot or will not understand that, then those men should probably be with someone who respects their control over their own body as those women take for granted for themselves.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

there never will be and never can be "equal reproductive rights" in this sense. Not unless men can figure out how to get themselves pregnant, anyways. In a society that values freedom and the right of bodily integrity, as well as responsibility for one's children, this is always the way it has to be. Complain to god if you like.

Men have control over their own bodies, as women do. So they must take responsibility for their own fertility. If the women they are with cannot or will not understand that, then those men should probably be with someone who respects their control over their own body as those women take for granted for themselves.

+1

 

[crushing]

I also doubt there will ever be reproductive equality. And yes, of course people should have control over their own bodies. That does not disagree with my comments.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

In many circumstances where deception is practiced, the person who is deceived is not held liable for the consequences of their actions. However, the frequent end result of a pregnancy is a human being who is guilty of no deception and has two biological parents, both of whom are responsible in the eyes of the law for the care of that child until the age of majority is reached.

Therefore, if one is hoodwinked in a contract, one can seek redress in the courts and be released from the terms of the contract. If one is hoodwinked and a live human birth results, that new human being has needs that the law says must be provided by both biological parents, regardless of who was zooming whom. The alternative is that the child, who is the only blameless party, is the one cheated.

 

[cdunn]

I didn't want children. I used condoms until I was in a permanent relationship where we both agreed we didn't want children, then I got sterilized.

If you won't get sterilized and you won't use condoms, then you take the risk of trusting your partner to handle the birth control... or you practice abstinence.

 

[celtic_crippler]

Bottom line: It takes two to tango...

 

[David43515]

Unfortunately there`s a reverse side to this coin as well. I`ve known cases where the woman wanted to marry a man who wanted children, and while they were dating she was all for having his children, even going so far as to encourage him to move the wedding up expressly for the pupose of starting a family sooner. After they were married he found out she was secretly using birth control for the first 2 years of thier marriage.

It`s easy to say "Don`t get into a relationship with someone you don`t trust completely". And most of us never would. But we`re dges of character that we assumed we were when we fell in love.

 

[granfire]

Unfortunately there`s a reverse side to this coin as well. I`ve known cases where the woman wanted to marry a man who wanted children, and while they were dating she was all for having his children, even going so far as to encourage him to move the wedding up expressly for the pupose of starting a family sooner. After they were married he found out she was secretly using birth control for the first 2 years of thier marriage.

It`s easy to say "Don`t get into a relationship with someone you don`t trust completely". And most of us never would. But we`re dges of character that we assumed we were when we fell in love.

Sucks seriously but it's not irreversable.

However, the 'getting knocked up' has been a 'popular' technique to 'land' the right man.

I suppose when you are only out for the meal ticket...<shudder>

 

[bushidomartialarts]

You're right. It's completely unfair, and there are other examples.

I have a friend who was recently on trial for rape because he slept with a woman who was too drunk to consent under the law in his state. When he mentioned that he was also shitface drunk, the prosecutor told him that being drunk doesn't mean he's not responsible for his actions.

On one hand, it pisses me off. On the other, the pendulum is swinging. Wasn't too long ago (I mean less than 40 years) that it was legally impossible for a man to rape his wife. Women are enjoying a period of being the ones favored by law.

It will swing back soon enough, and hopefully each swing will be less extreme.

 

[granfire]

You're right. It's completely unfair, and there are other examples.

I have a friend who was recently on trial for rape because he slept with a woman who was too drunk to consent under the law in his state. When he mentioned that he was also shitface drunk, the prosecutor told him that being drunk doesn't mean he's not responsible for his actions.

gawd, I hate this type of crap.

On one hand, it pisses me off. On the other, the pendulum is swinging. Wasn't too long ago (I mean less than 40 years) that it was legally impossible for a man to rape his wife. Women are enjoying a period of being the ones favored by law.

It will swing back soon enough, and hopefully each swing will be less extreme.

Hopefully.

 

[Ken Morgan]

You're right. It's completely unfair, and there are other examples.

I have a friend who was recently on trial for rape because he slept with a woman who was too drunk to consent under the law in his state. When he mentioned that he was also shitface drunk, the prosecutor told him that being drunk doesn't mean he's not responsible for his actions.

On one hand, it pisses me off. On the other, the pendulum is swinging. Wasn't too long ago (I mean less than 40 years) that it was legally impossible for a man to rape his wife. Women are enjoying a period of being the ones favored by law.

It will swing back soon enough, and hopefully each swing will be less extreme.

Swing back will be just as problematic. How about we let it stop in the middle, and give everyone rights and responsibilies?

 

[Sukerkin]

It is indeed a very interesting article, Don. I have a few emotional and intellectual responses to the core topic but they've largely been covered by the posters above. I'm too tired to think of an insightful rephrasing of what has been said so far so I'll wait until the morrow and see if inspiration strikes.

 

[Carol]

[FONT=times, times new roman]Very interesting article. Having had an ex-wife who faked a pregnancy and miscarriage,[/FONT]

[FONT=times, times new roman]

That's...just...horrible. I can't wrap my head around it. That's not to say I don't believe it exists, it is just not something that I can fathom. At least for me, the delights of intimacy are strongly rooted in trust and respect. Doing something like that just obliterates trust.

[/FONT]

[FONT=times, times new roman] and several ex-girlfriends who refused to use condoms, I've seen a lot of this. What are your thoughts?
[/FONT]

Never had an issue with condoms long-term. :idunno:

I'll go out on a limb and address the "F" word. No, not THAT "F" word the other one: Finances.

Except for the college boyfriend I had 20+ years ago, I haven't lived with anyone outside of marriage. Perhaps that makes me the odd one out...but if/when a long term relationship starts to fall apart, it seems a helluva lot less "complicated" if both people have their own place and have maintained a means of supporting themselves.

I'm assuming its also less complicated when kids are involved. Can't speak from experience, though. But that gets back to the condom usage, eh? :angel:

 

[Flea]

I had a friend many years ago who was entrapped by a girlfriend who tried to force a marriage by stopping her contraception. He tried to walk away completely, but she got him on child support. On one level I think that's appropriate, but ... he was always extremely clear with her about not wanting children. Pregnancy was a deliberate and unilateral decision.

Last I heard he was doing his best with home visits, but the mother's dysfunctional family dynamic made it very difficult for him to get too involved. Ultimately the real loser in the situation is the child, who grew up with a mother like that, and a drop-in dad. I haven't heard from him in a long time, so I don't know how it turned out.

The lesson I took away from that is that if you're serious about not wanting children, take the initiative yourself. No apologies. And if your partner refuses to negotiate methods of BC, maybe they're not the greatest lover material in the first place.

 

[Big Don]

My dad has two kids from his first marriage, they are 10 and 12 years older than me. When he was first married to my mom, they discussed kids, and she agreed waiting a few years was the thing to do. My mom unilaterally decided not to wait sometime later and I was conceived. My dad said, upon hearing she was pregnant, "That's great, but, I thought we were going to wait?" Fast forward 15 years to their divorce>>>
I pitched a fit because my mom had asked my dad to move out without telling me or my sister. I said I wasn't going to school until I talked to my dad, (Long before cell phones were common) and I didn't. She got pissed at me and said, "Your dad never wanted you." Something she denies saying, to this day. I asked my dad about it as soon as I saw him and he told me the truth.
Even when couples stay together for years, a unilateral decision by the wife to get pregnant is a rotten thing to do.

 

[Nomad]

It's amazing how many people see this fundamental breach of trust as acceptable to get what they want (kind of similar to having extramarital affairs, I guess).

In the end, the only person you can trust for prophylactics is you. If you don't want kids (ever), have a vasectomy. If you do, just not now, then wear a condom. If she's not cool with that, too bad.

If you are trusting her to take care of birth control, you have to accept the possibility of genuine accidents or of "accidents" like those posted above.

 

[Carol]

Not only that, a woman can only get pregnant 1 or 2 days out of 28. However, she can get (or give) an STD 28 days out of 28.

Some STDs have an uncomfortably long incubation period, do they not?