Club Defense: Kenpo And Non Kenpo

[Kembudo-Kai Kempoka]

So, in a nutshell, the techs were designed to deal with a shorter, heavier impact weapon, whether its swung with 1 hand or 2. So, as for the question I asked before...since it seems like the lighter, rattan stick is whats commonly used, does anything need to be changed to deal with the heavier weapon?

Yes. The permitted intensity of the training model. Lotta kenpo out there trained at gentlemens distances, on gentlemens terms. Not one is busting out a bunch of hairy testosterone, and bull-rushing the other guy -- either the attacker, or the defender. Turn the the intensity about 80%, maintain control in spite of increased intensity, and a lot of the issues become either transparent, or self-correcting.

Miss my "whumpa-thump"... thick wooden dowel of heavy oak, dimensions of a ball bat, with several layers of towels and foam padding duct-taped to it. Then go balls to the wall. God help the guy who doesn't move well enough and fast enough, whether footwork, hands, positioning, or any combination of all of it. That think would break and arm if it caught you just right.

After lotsa kenpo, lotsa Arnis, etc., it ultimately boils down to one of the FEW things that makes me glad I point sparred a lot. Dance in; dance out; press his guard into his body and take your shot. The in-and-out lunging in point sparring, combined with the developed skills in competitive applications of pinning checks and sniping shot, methinks it's one of the best approaches to dealing with bludgeons and bats to be had. Cross between a champ point fighter, the Krav videos approach, and a mad bull elephant rushing a competitor in the bush, and were getting close to some viable approaches.

 

[Doc]

My apologies. I had to edit my OP, as I mistakenly posted an incorrect clip. The initial Kenpo clip I posted was an unarmed defense, against a push. I have now posted the clip that I had intially intended.

Anyways...I agree with Tony. In 2 of the clips that I posted, it seems to me anyways, that the attacker is stopping their swing, rather than giving a more real feeling, and following thru. I didn't get that impression from the Krav Maga clip that I posted. The last clip, while it seems that the swing was being cut short, what I like about the 2nd and 3rd clips, is the idea of moving in. Move in, get control of the weapon arm and attack. Simple and to the point. The 1st clip...IMO, if someone is swinging hard and fast, I'm not seeing how the arm could be grabbed. I could almost justify the idea of moving off to the side, and kicking, however, there is no control of the weapon.

Anyone else have any thoughts, comments, etc?

You covered it pretty well. I've found in Kenpo Karate many have "techniques" they think they know, and reverse engineer the attack to fit what they want to do, instead of solve the real problem of the attack itself. That is a staple of the "Two-Guys doing Kenpo" franchise videos we see all the time. Lots of chatter, and virtually no substance.

 

[Doc]

Yes. The permitted intensity of the training model. Lotta kenpo out there trained at gentlemens distances, on gentlemens terms. Not one is busting out a bunch of hairy testosterone, and bull-rushing the other guy -- either the attacker, or the defender. Turn the the intensity about 80%, maintain control in spite of increased intensity, and a lot of the issues become either transparent, or self-correcting.

Miss my "whumpa-thump"... thick wooden dowel of heavy oak, dimensions of a ball bat, with several layers of towels and foam padding duct-taped to it. Then go balls to the wall. God help the guy who doesn't move well enough and fast enough, whether footwork, hands, positioning, or any combination of all of it. That think would break and arm if it caught you just right.

After lotsa kenpo, lotsa Arnis, etc., it ultimately boils down to one of the FEW things that makes me glad I point sparred a lot. Dance in; dance out; press his guard into his body and take your shot. The in-and-out lunging in point sparring, combined with the developed skills in competitive applications of pinning checks and sniping shot, methinks it's one of the best approaches to dealing with bludgeons and bats to be had. Cross between a champ point fighter, the Krav videos approach, and a mad bull elephant rushing a competitor in the bush, and were getting close to some viable approaches.

Some are confusing the light whipping rattan "sticks" for the "bludgeons" the techniques are supposed to work against.

 

[Doc]

I'm not Doc, but here is a quick video that explains alot of what was meant by "club" in the original techniques. As Doc has pointed out, it was not a lightweight stick.

You're not Doc? Wait! Uh, never mind I need some rest.

 

[Bigdavid5.0]

I got hit in the back of the head by the end of a pool cue.I got mad.I always like to kick to the bladder on the first kick.It helps with this technic