Classical footwork and practical footwork...

[geezer]

Can someone put up a "classical footwork" clip and a "practical footwork" clip so we can have more concrete discussion?

Here are some clips of the "orthhodox" or traditional stances and steps in WT as demonstrated by Alex Richter:

How to Do Juen Ma aka Turning Stance | Wing Chun




I don't have any clips of what I'm referring to as "practical". Maybe a better way to explain it would be "idealized" vs. what yo actually see in sparring? The concepts are the same, but the "real" is never as precise as the ideal. Moreover, if you obsess about trying to make it precisely match the "ideal" when pressure testing the result may not be so functional..

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Thanks for putting up this clip. What's your opinion on "step in leading foot, back foot slide in"? This footwork has been used in many MA styles.

If we compare the following 2 different footwork:

1. Move leading foot (1.1), back foot slid in (1.2).
2. Move back foot next to leading foot (2.1), you then move leading foot (2.2) (not sure if WC uses this footwork).

If we divide both footwork as 1.1, 1.2, 2.1, 2.2, we can see that during:

- 1.1, the distance between you and your opponent has been reduced. Your opponent can sweep your leading leg at that moment.
- 2.1, the distance between you and your opponent remain the same. Your opponent can't sweep your leading leg at that moment.

Here may be an example of "practical footwork" and why one should move the back foot first.

 

[wckf92]

Thanks for putting up this clip. What's your opinion on "step in leading foot, back foot slide in"? This footwork has been used in many MA styles.

If we compare the following 2 different footwork:

1. Move leading foot (1.1), back foot slid in (1.2).
2. Move back foot next to leading foot (2.1), you then move leading foot (2.2).

If we divide both footwork as 1.1, 1.2, 2.1, 2.2, we can see that during:

- 1.1, the distance between you and your opponent has been reduced. Your opponent can sweep your leading leg at that moment.
- 2.1, the distance between you and your opponent remain the same. Your opponent can't sweep your leading leg at that moment.

Here may be an example of "practical footwork" and why one should move the back foot first.

You aren't comparing apples to apples dude.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

You aren't comparing apples to apples dude.

How many ways can you move forward?

- Move front leg, back leg slide.
- Move back leg next to front leg, you then move front leg.
- Move back leg pass and in front of front leg.
- Jump up with both feet and land forward.
- ???

 

[wckf92]

How many ways can you move forward?

- Move front leg, back leg slide.
- Move back leg next to front leg, you then move front leg.
- Move back leg pass and in front of front leg.
- Jump up with both feet and land forward.
- ???

All I'm saying is that in your example...the guy had his leg raised for a kick. And his/your rebuttal is a sweep motion(???)
Apples to oranges dude

 

[Martial D]

In my WC lineage (originally coming out of WT) we train footwork quite rigorously. Our YGKYM (also called "Character 2 Stance" and "IRAS" or "Internal Rotation Adduction Stance"), our stance-turning and forward "drag-step" are trained to the point of wearing out a lot of kung fu slippers, and leading some students to suspect that it is just a plot to sell more shoes.

So, on one hand I continue the tradition (without selling shoes!) with my students, but have to say that there reaches a point in a student's development where they become reasonably proficient at the classical stances and steps, but find that in sparring a more ...flexible? interpretation of the footwork can be more practical.

Ultimately, the overriding objectives of getting an angle, good range, and advantageous position in the least amount of time are of more importance. I still believe in the value of a solid traditional foundation, but I equally believe that this is only a starting point. And I don't agree with the old "traditional" perspective that you need to hold back many many years to reveal this. That rigidity is why WC is commonly seen as impractical and even useless. Thoughts?

I find it interesting that you mention the drag step. In my WC it was taught as foundational, but a lot of other WC/wt people look at me funny(literally or figuratively) when I mention it. Does your lineage also teach triangle stepping?

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

All I'm saying is that in your example...the guy had his leg raised for a kick. And his/your rebuttal is a sweep motion(???)
Apples to oranges dude

After you have moved your back leg next to your leading leg, you can move your leading leg forward any way you want to (doesn't have to be a kick). The only concern is when the distance between you and your opponent has been reduced, your opponent's leg can attack your leg at that moment. Instead of waiting for your opponent's leg to attack your leg, it's better for your leg to attack your opponent's leg.

Do we call that to "establish leg bridge" in WC?

 

[wckf92]

Does your lineage also teach triangle stepping?

Hell yeah Bro!

 

[wckf92]

After you have moved your back leg next to your leading leg, you can move your leading leg forward any way you want to (doesn't have to be a kick). The only concern is when the distance between you and your opponent has been reduced, your opponent's leg can attack your leg at that moment. Instead of waiting for your opponent's leg to attack your leg, it's better for your leg to attack your opponent's leg.

Do we call that to "establish leg bridge" in WC?

You just proved my point.

 

[Martial D]

How many ways can you move forward?

- Move front leg, back leg slide.
- Move back leg next to front leg, you then move front leg.
- Move back leg pass and in front of front leg.
- Jump up with both feet and land forward.
- ???

Push off with back foot as you step/bounce in onto front foot. This is my preferred entry most of the time. I'd never go back foot first, or any variant of that that narrows the stance. Not unless takedowns weren't an issue.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

I'd never go back foot first, or any variant of that that narrows the stance. Not unless takedowns weren't an issue.

You can use that footwork as a jump front kick. When your back foot move next to your leading foot, your are jumping in the air.

After 0.36.

IMO, to close in the distance (move in) can be as simple as "a front kick on your opponent's knee joint".

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

A forward footwork can be just a "hop" which is similar to a jump front kick. You move your back foot first, when you move your front foot, your back foot have not landed yet. (both of your feet can be in the air).

 

[wckf92]

[/QUOTE]

When your back foot move next to your leading foot

Basic wing chun...contained in second form.

can be as simple as "a front kick on your opponent's knee joint".

Agree.

 

[Flying Crane]

Once my students get past that green rookie stage, I teach them all the stances I know, all the footwork I know, and let them figure out what works best for them through trial and error while fighting and doing self defense drills.

Seems to work okay.

my Dutch is OK...

 

[Danny T]

Here are some clips of the "orthhodox" or traditional stances and steps in WT as demonstrated by Alex Richter:

How to Do Juen Ma aka Turning Stance | Wing Chun




I don't have any clips of what I'm referring to as "practical". Maybe a better way to explain it would be "idealized" vs. what yo actually see in sparring? The concepts are the same, but the "real" is never as precise as the ideal. Moreover, if you obsess about trying to make it precisely match the "ideal" when pressure testing the result may not be so functional..

We have this stepping as well as push stepping, a pendulum stepping, a circular stepping, a rear foot bracing, weigh distribution with 100% on the rear to 50/50, turning on the ball of the foot, center of the foot, as well as on the heel depending on what is required.

 

[geezer]

We have this stepping as well as push stepping, a pendulum stepping, a circular stepping, a rear foot bracing, weigh distribution with 100% on the rear to 50/50, turning on the ball of the foot, center of the foot, as well as on the heel depending on what is required.

^^^^Well then, nobody's gonna accuse you of being narrow minded!

 

[Danny T]

^^^^Well then, nobody's gonna accuse you of being narrow minded!

Not certain about being narrow minded but I do use a lot of footwork & different weight distribution in doing so.