Cindy Sheehan

[michaeledward]

Ms. Sheehan has an interesting blog post on the 'huffingtonpost' web site, replying to recent news reports about President Bush's trip to Idaho.

Most notable is the confusion concerning what Ms. Sheehan has requested.

"On Sheehan, the grieving mother who has camped near his ranch since Aug. 6, the president said he strongly supports her right to protest. 'She expressed her opinion. I disagree with it,' Bush said. 'I think immediate withdrawal from Iraq would be a mistake,' he said. 'I think those who advocate immediate withdrawal from not only Iraq but the Middle East are advocating a policy that would weaken the United States.'"​

This is the biggest smokescreen from him yet. I didn't ask him to withdraw the troops, I asked him what Noble Cause did Casey die for. I am still waiting for one member of the press corps to ask him that. I am still waiting for that answer. First, we were told WMD: false. Then we were told Saddam=Osama: false. Then we were told Saddam was a bad man to his own people and we had to get rid of him: he's gone. Then we were told the Iraqi people had to have elections: they did. Now we are spreading "freedom and democracy" but we are building 14 permanent bases, some the size of Sacramento, Ca. To me that indicates that we are spreading the cancer of imperialism and usurping THEIR natural resources.

 

[MisterMike]

Someone should tell Ms. Sheehan (is it Ms. already? poor thing) that Nobility was left in England a couple hundred years ago. Maybe she should try asking Tony Blair.

 

[Makalakumu]

Now we are spreading "freedom and democracy" but we are building 14 permanent bases, some the size of Sacramento, Ca.

Is this true? I thought the President claimed that we would not have a permanent military presence in Iraq.

 

[Tgace]

Well, dont take this as law but...I think shes confusing permanent with "improved". The longer the military stays the more developed the base becomes. My friend who is back on leave from Iraq can testify. Buildings get constructed. Walls get built, barracks, mess halls, gyms, PX's etc. The "permanent" comes when the government says "we arent going to leave" not when a base reaches a certain size or state of development.

 

[michaeledward]

Apparently, several television stations will not air an add by Ms. Sheehan. It can be viewed here:

http://www.gsfp.org/

MisterMike, I do try to refer to people respectfully. I always thought that Ms. was an accepted method of addressing a woman, married or otherwise. You may notice that I tend to address Mr. Bush as 'President', and members of the Supreme Court as 'Justice' (or 'Cheif Justice' when appropriate). I also try to address elected leaders by their titles; Senator, or Representative.


"When we use words like 'Honor', 'Duty', and 'Code' it means something. You use them as a punch-line.' - Colonel Nathan R. Jessep

 

[Makalakumu]

Well, dont take this as law but...I think shes confusing permanent with "improved". The longer the military stays the more developed the base becomes. My friend who is back on leave from Iraq can testify. Buildings get constructed. Walls get built, barracks, mess halls, gyms, PX's etc. The "permanent" comes when the government says "we arent going to leave" not when a base reaches a certain size or state of development.

Have you read "Rebuilding Americas Defesnes" by Paul Wolfowitz? In it, he writes that we need to shift our defenses from Europe to the Balkans and the Middle East...among other things. I know that Mr. Wolfowitz played a huge part in forming US policy before he left to be president of the World Bank. I wonder if these bases are the implementation of that policy.

 

[sgtmac_46]

Have you read "Rebuilding Americas Defesnes" by Paul Wolfowitz? In it, he writes that we need to shift our defenses from Europe to the Balkans and the Middle East...among other things. I know that Mr. Wolfowitz played a huge part in forming US policy before he left to be president of the World Bank. I wonder if these bases are the implementation of that policy.

If we didn't maintain a permanent military presence in Iraq, we'd be complete morons. We are getting out of Saudi Arabia, which is one of the main stated intentions of Al-qaeda. Permanent military installations in Iraq was always part of the plan, and should have been.

I've stated in several posts that the Iraq war was a strategic one, not a tactical one. Placing ourselves directly between Syria and Iran, with a significant military force, is a way for us to respond to future crisises in the region. I, for one, would be very angry if we DID NOT maintain that presence.

Of coure, maintaining military bases is far different than having to garrison cities. Bases can be defended, it's doing patrols in populated areas that gets us shot at.

 

[heretic888]

Not at all, I said I was willing to give you the benefit of the doubt. I was just pointing out that there were two posts, not one your comment applied to. I never claimed that slight was intentional on your part. In fact, I thought so much of your post that I simply wanted to extend it's influence to other posts it applied to. Sorry if you didn't catch that part.

I should bring up two points here:

1) I really didn't read Steve's post closely and don't see what bearing it had on Ms. Sheehan's protesting campaign. Ergo, it didn't seem relevant to the discussion at hand.

2) This still makes the assumption that it is somehow my personal responsibility to correct all logical fallacies brought up on this thread. It is not.

 

[Tgace]

Thats not surprising in the least.....

 

[heretic888]

Thats not surprising in the least.....

Nor are your lightning-fast, one-liner, sarcastic multi-posts.

 

[Tgace]

I am just the padwan of sacracm oh master.....

 

[Sapper6]

oh, looky here, Cindy's Back!!! hooray!!! i haven't seen a sequel this bad since Caddyshack 2. :idunno:

http://www.breitbart.com/news/2005/08/24/D8C6FJ3G0.html



at least some parents still hold pride for what their loved ones are doing...

NAMPA, Idaho -- President Bush today took direct aim at Cindy Sheehan, the anti-war protester who has set up camp near the Bushes Texas ranch and purports to speak for military moms who, like her, have lost a son in the Iraq war.

Speaking to hundreds of Idaho National Guardsmen, the president singled out military mom Tammy Pruett of Pocatello, Idaho, whose husband and five sons have all served in Iraq.

"Tammy has four sons serving in Iraq right now with the Idaho National Guard: Eric, Evan, Greg and Jeff. Last year her husband, Leon, and another son, Aaron, returned from Iraq, where they helped train Iraqi firefighters in Mosul.

"Tammy says this -- and I want you to hear this -- 'I know that if something happens to one of the boys, they would leave this world doing what they believe, what they think is right for our country.'

"And I guess you couldn't ask for a better way of life than giving it for something that you believe in. America lives in freedom because of families like the Pruetts."

The crowd, made up mostly of military family members, broke into cheers and chants of "U-S-A! U-S-A!"

 

[michaeledward]

oh, looky here, Cindy's Back!!! hooray!!! i haven't seen a sequel this bad since Caddyshack 2.

http://www.breitbart.com/news/2005/08/24/D8C6FJ3G0.html

at least some parents still hold pride for what their loved ones are doing...

Are you insuating that Ms. Sheehan was, in any way, not proud of Casey? Did Mr. Rove put you up to that smear?

 

[Sapper6]

Are you insuating that Ms. Sheehan was, in any way, not proud of Casey? Did Mr. Rove put you up to that smear?

perhaps, but not in the manner you'd prefer though. i think you know what i mean...i know that others will.

and no Mr. Rove didn't ask me to say that. should i have any inclinations whatsoever about how to smear, i'd just ask cindy.

 

[michaeledward]

perhaps, but not in the manner you'd prefer though. i think you know what i mean...i know that others will.

and no Mr. Rove didn't ask me to say that. should i have any inclinations whatsoever about how to smear, i'd just ask cindy.

I actually have no idea what you mean. It seems that you think that Ms. Sheehan is somehow not proud of her son, his service to the country, and his death in uniform. If you actually mean something else, I will be pleased to have you explain it to me.

I believe Ms. Sheehan wants only one thing. She would like the President to explain to her, in person, what is the purpose that caused her son to give his life for our country.

"But no matter where he [Bush] goes, he's going to find a Cindy Sheehan in every community across the United States. The name is going to be different, but the message is going to be the same."

 

[Cryozombie]

I believe Ms. Sheehan wants only one thing. She would like the President to explain to her, in person, what is the purpose that caused her son to give his life for our country.

I have to point this out... you can debate the right or wrong of it, I don't care.

When you Enlist... "purpose" holds NO meaning. At that point you are like a bullet: They point the gun and fire you, and you go... you don't ask why, you just do.

This was what her son did. if he didn't "Understand" before he enlisted... well. I won't comment on that.

Perhaps what she needs, instead of an explaination is an understanding of WHY her son was a Soldier.

I often wonder what exactly people think "MILITARY SERVICE" means.

 

[Tgace]

He understood....she did not.

 

[Makalakumu]

I have to point this out... you can debate the right or wrong of it, I don't care.

When you Enlist... "purpose" holds NO meaning. At that point you are like a bullet: They point the gun and fire you, and you go... you don't ask why, you just do.

This was what her son did. if he didn't "Understand" before he enlisted... well. I won't comment on that.

Perhaps what she needs, instead of an explaination is an understanding of WHY her son was a Soldier.

I often wonder what exactly people think "MILITARY SERVICE" means.

If this is true, then why make any oaths that are not, "I promise to serve without reservation, without question, the will of my leaders..."

There is a higher purpose then that in all public service.

 

[michaeledward]

I think the point for Ms. Sheehan may be that we were told we were fighting to protect the nation from Weapons of Mass Destruction. Saddam Hussein had stocks of WMD that could be transferred to terrorist organizations of global reach, which could then be used against the United States. That would, indeed, be a noble cause.

But, there are no Weapons of Mass Destruction.

Then we were told that Saddam Hussein had links to Al Qaeda. And that nefarious connection could only indicate an imminent threat to the United States and her allies. Wasn't Mohammed Atta meeting with top Iraqi personnel in Prague just months before September 11, 2001? That would, indeed, be a noble cause.

But, Mohammed Atta was never in Prague during the Spring and Summer of 2001.

Then we were told that we are spreading Peace and Democracy to the Iraqi people, and the Middle East. We have returned sovereignty to the Iraqi People June 28, 2004. We celebrated the victory of independent elections on January 30, 2005. Truly, this must be a Noble Cause for which we must ask our soldiers to sacrifice.

But, more than 1,100 mothers have entered into the organization of Gold Star Mothers since returning soveriegnty to Iraq.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * *

I will not debate what Casey knew, or didn't know; did or didn't understand. It seems obvious that Casey followed orders. He was in Iraq. He died in Iraq. He died in service to the country. I don't think any more needs to be said about young Mr. Sheehan's service.

 

[qizmoduis]

It's important to understand that while Casey Sheehan took his military oaths when he entered service and died doing his duty, his mother did not take those same oaths. President Bush is supposed to be accountable to the citizens of this country, including Mrs. Sheehan. She has every right to want to know the truth, as do we all. As citizens, we have every right to demand an accounting from Mr. Bush. The last time I checked, Mrs. Sheehan WAS an U.S. Citizen. Does her son's service somehow restrict her from exercising her rights as a citizen? The conversatives apparently believe that.

I do have reservations about the way she's going about this, however. I don't see that Mr. Bush has any obligation to explain himself and his "reasoning" to her in person.

The conservative insinuations and insults against Mrs. Sheehan are typically disgusting and beneath dignity. But par for the course in terms of conservative political tactics. You can see plenty of examples of this nastiness even in this very thread. Every time I believe the conservatives can't get any lower, they prove me wrong.