Chin Na

[scottcatchot]

I was wondering if anyone had any info concerning Chin Na? I have heard it called White tiger or White Dragon. I have even been told it was a founding factor in Aikido. I am curious and any info would be appreciated.

Scott

 

[clfsean]

Qin Na (Kum La) is found in almost every CMA out there. It's integral in CMA fighting theory & methodology.

What CMA are you practicing?

 

[scottcatchot]

I am looking into starting Shaolin Kempo, The instructer made references to Chin Na and I wanted to look more into what it was.

 

[clfsean]

Oh... ok...

Bottom line is that Qin Na is found in all TCMA.

Much more than that & I'm just avoiding a flame fest.

 

[arnisador]

Chin Na is indeed found in many, and indeed I would say in most, styles of Kung Fu. It is not common to see it practiced independent of some more general art. Loosely speaking, it can be compared to jujutsu--mostly standing grappling based on joint locks. (Of course, this is an oversimplification.) You'll find books on it at your local bookstore.

 

[Flying Crane]

I'll give it a go.

My understanding of Chin-Na is that it focuses on joint manipulation techniques, rather than kicking and punching techniques (altho these techniques may be combined with Chin-Na in application). So the finger-locks, wrist-locks, arm-bars, shoulder locks, etc. that are found in Chinese arts are part of the body of Chin-na. Most Chinese arts have these techniques to some degree or other. Some focus on these techs alot, others not so much.

I have heard it said that Chinese Chin-Na is the foundation and origin of arts in Japan that use similar techniques, like Jujitsu and Aikido. This may be true but I am not advocating one way or the other.

Dr. Yang, Jwing-Ming has numerous books on Chinese martial arts, including a couple on Chin-Na, I believe with a tai chi chuan focus. I have seen his books at Borders, or Amazon would certainly have them. These books would be a good source of information, but if you don't already have a solid background in these arts you will probably have a hard time actually learning the techniques from them.

 

[scottcatchot]

Thanks., That is what I "assumed" it was, but wanted other input. If it isn't taught independently, then is the fact that It is referenced as 'White tiger CHin Na" a reference to the style it is being drawn from?

 

[Flying Crane]

Thanks., That is what I "assumed" it was, but wanted other input. If it isn't taught independently, then is the fact that It is referenced as 'White tiger CHin Na" a reference to the style it is being drawn from?

I would have no idea about that. Never heard of "White Tiger (or Dragon) Chin Na."

 

[Flying Crane]

Thanks., That is what I "assumed" it was, but wanted other input. If it isn't taught independently, then is the fact that It is referenced as 'White tiger CHin Na" a reference to the style it is being drawn from?

Ask the instructor, and let us know what he says. Now you have a little background info. This should help you if you need to sniff out a dead fish...

 

[clfsean]

Actually... a dead fish isn't what I was thinking...

 

[Flying Crane]

Actually... a dead fish isn't what I was thinking...

Do tell

 

[Brother John]

Thanks., That is what I "assumed" it was, but wanted other input. If it isn't taught independently, then is the fact that It is referenced as 'White tiger CHin Na" a reference to the style it is being drawn from?

Some, or perhaps...several, DO teach Chin-Na independant of another system. But this, I think, is a relatively new way to teach it. The grand majority of it IS imbedded within other styles.
IF there is a "White Tiger Chin-Na" then it's no doubt an independant style of Gung-Fu (that I've never heard of, but that's not saying all that much) and the Chin-Na is being emphasized and set aside as a specific study W/in that style.
For instance: there are many that teach "Chin-Na" as "White Crane Chin-Na" which would be the grabbing/seizing arts found w/in the context of the White Crane System. OR...there's "Taijiquan Chin-Na"....again simply the grabbing/seizing system from the Taijiquan context.
SO: If I had a style, we'll call it "PDQ" then the system of PDQ would have it's own techniques, sets, forms, weapons, special exercises...etc., but ONE particular aspect of PDQ may be "Chin-Na". This aspect would be taught as "PDQ Chin-Na".
Does that make sense?
Hope so.

Your Brother
John

 

[Brother John]

I would have no idea about that. Never heard of "White Tiger (or Dragon) Chin Na."

Yeah.... same here. BUT: That's not saying it's not a good style/system. Nor is it saying that they aren't crummy. Just that neither of us have heard of it.
Sometimes in the past (distant and recent past) people have taken a martial art and called it something unique after they've put their own touches on it. Different people see this different ways. ME? I don't care....can they benefit the average student?? That's what I care about.

There are many offshoots of the "Tiger" or "Dragon" systems of Gung-Fu. I only know of a small handfull of them.

Your Brother
John

 

[clfsean]

Do tell

Check your PM's later...

 

[Jade Tigress]

Chin Na is indeed found in many, and indeed I would say in most, styles of Kung Fu. It is not common to see it practiced independent of some more general art. Loosely speaking, it can be compared to jujutsu--mostly standing grappling based on joint locks. (Of course, this is an oversimplification.) You'll find books on it at your local bookstore.

Yes, I agree with this. Chin na is part of our kung fu training - I would characterize it (oversimplifiedI) the same way - grappling based on joint locks...

 

[7starmantis]

Yes but remember those who teach chin na seperate from another systems or who really get involved with it do use strikes and even focus on closing the vein or wind such as chokes.

7sm

 

[Brother John]

Yes
and Cavity Presses, nerve activations and the like as well.

Your Brother
John

 

[jdinca]

In addition to what has been mentioned about joint locks, the Chin na taught in our system also encompasses pressure points and throws.

 

[Jade Tigress]

In addition to what has been mentioned about joint locks, the Chin na taught in our system also encompasses pressure points and throws.

yes, ours too..

 

[clfsean]

If one looks at most Qin Na, throws (Shuai) are incorporated since in the action of siezing & locking (qin na), you should find yourself in a superior position to your opponent & them off balance. As far as pressure points, most of the locks & throws I know & have been exposed to consists of striking or grabbing nerve bundles & centers along with the "pressure points" for the easy touch knockouts.

Just remember one thing about Qin Na or any kind of grappling, stand up or rolling. You're not going to snag somebody's arm out of the air like in the movies. You're going to have to hit them... possibly repeatedly... to get their mind off what you're trying to set up to do to their joints. Qin Na is an assist to finish, not a start. You may practice the invididual locks & manipulations without the foreplay of smacking somebody first, but understand in 99.99% of all encounters, you'll need that opening of just whalloping somebody first.