sparring help needed

[Blindside]

No no, Jean Claude Van Damme in Kickboxer

Oh, thats worse. Swayze can dance.

 

[MJS]

You know, I'm curious what kind of sparring we're talking about here? Is it karate style point sparring? Grappling? Aikido style randori? MMA style full contact? Street style combat? I think knowing that would frame this discussion.

I can easily see how dancing in general would make you a better martial artist. It would help with balance, flexibility, footwork, timing, coordination, sensitivity to an opponent, etc. I'm not convinced that doing actual dance moves during a fight would do you any good against someone who actually knew how to fight. I'm reminded of students, and myself, jumping up and down, bouncing around, clapping and stomping. Those tricks are fun, and can be effective on an unexperienced fighter, but an experienced fighter sees right through them. He'll ignore the fancy moves, watch your hips and weapons, and then lay you out flat. Every time. Instead of using tricks to try to cut his line, I should spend more time lengthening my own.

If we're talking about karate style point fighting, especially with stoppages after each point scored, then I can see how some fancy footwork could help. If you can't beat them with skill dazzle them with bs. But if we're talking about street style combat or MMA style full contact, forget it. You ever see a heavyweight, in any combat sport, dance during a fight? I mean really dance? That's because it won't work against real fighters. If it did, we'd all be doing it.

That doesn't mean it doesn't work for CuongNHuka. And it might even help him get better. It might even help him get past the point where he needs dance steps to score points, but generally, I'll buy dance helps your fighting, I just won't buy dancing helps your fighting.


-Rob

Thats true, we don't know what type of sparring it is. One thing that I'm confused about is that the OP stated that things were working for him, so I'm not sure exactly what it is that he's looking for. I can see perhaps dancing helping with coordination, balance, etc., but I'm getting the impression that the OP was talking about doing the footwork patterns of Salsa dancing, the tango, or any other dance out there and using it while sparring. Is it possible to have proper footwork, body position, etc., when throwing punches, using those moves? I don't know, as I do not use them.

Mike

 

[CuongNhuka]

I can easily see how dancing in general would make you a better martial artist. It would help with balance, flexibility, footwork, timing, coordination, sensitivity to an opponent, etc.

That doesn't mean it doesn't work for CuongNHuka. And it might even help him get better. It might even help him get past the point where he needs dance steps to score points, but generally, I'll buy dance helps your fighting, I just won't buy dancing helps your fighting.

Ok we're getting it. Allow me to explain now that I've calmed down, and we're getting my point.
One time (a while ago) I was reading about Mantis Kung Fu. One of the substyles I found was Jade Ring. Which uses a lot of bizzare footwork to distract/dazzle opponents as well create/get to openings to allow for attacks. It didn't really give much more, and having no real discriptions of Mantis foot work, I went with what I had. Cuong Nhu does more foot work then some styles, but nothing really along the lines of what was described. So I put it in the back of my mind.
Anouther time I was reading about Bruce Lee. He did Jazz to work on his foot work. And was reputed to have danced before a fight. I thought, well why not? I got a book on Latin and Ballroom dancing. I went through and played with some of what they had. After I could do most of it from memory I modifyed it to make it more Karate-esc. I put in strikes/combos. It flowed pretty easily. I tried it out a few times, and it works amazingly well, for me.
And the sparring is Karate style, but no points. It's just 2 minutes of continous with some grappling allowed.

See what I'm saying?
(oh and can who ever gave me negitive reputation grow up and SIGN YOUR NAME! I mean really, if you honestly think I'm so wrong and you're so right, what's so hard about admitting who you are?)

 

[CuongNhuka]

Thats true, we don't know what type of sparring it is. One thing that I'm confused about is that the OP stated that things were working for him, so I'm not sure exactly what it is that he's looking for. I can see perhaps dancing helping with coordination, balance, etc., but I'm getting the impression that the OP was talking about doing the footwork patterns of Salsa dancing, the tango, or any other dance out there and using it while sparring. Is it possible to have proper footwork, body position, etc., when throwing punches, using those moves? I don't know, as I do not use them.

Mike

Thats basicly what i'm saying. It seems to work, can anyone help me make this particular concept work better, or were I can go to make it work better.

 

[MJS]

Ok we're getting it. Allow me to explain now that I've calmed down, and we're getting my point.
One time (a while ago) I was reading about Mantis Kung Fu. One of the substyles I found was Jade Ring. Which uses a lot of bizzare footwork to distract/dazzle opponents as well create/get to openings to allow for attacks. It didn't really give much more, and having no real discriptions of Mantis foot work, I went with what I had. Cuong Nhu does more foot work then some styles, but nothing really along the lines of what was described. So I put it in the back of my mind.
Anouther time I was reading about Bruce Lee. He did Jazz to work on his foot work. And was reputed to have danced before a fight. I thought, well why not? I got a book on Latin and Ballroom dancing. I went through and played with some of what they had. After I could do most of it from memory I modifyed it to make it more Karate-esc. I put in strikes/combos. It flowed pretty easily. I tried it out a few times, and it works amazingly well, for me.
And the sparring is Karate style, but no points. It's just 2 minutes of continous with some grappling allowed.

Thats basicly what i'm saying. It seems to work, can anyone help me make this particular concept work better, or were I can go to make it work better.

Like I said, if you're finding something thats working for you, thats great. I think it was a bit confusing, because you came here, asking for assistance, but then said you found something that was working. See what I mean? For myself, I want to allow myself the best footwork that'll give me good mobility, and allow me to throw strikes from a solid base. The more fancy or detailed things are, the greater the chance for error. Keep it simple.

(oh and can who ever gave me negitive reputation grow up and SIGN YOUR NAME! I mean really, if you honestly think I'm so wrong and you're so right, what's so hard about admitting who you are?)

If you're having problems with rep, feel free to contact an Admin. to look into things for you, rather than discussing rep issues in the threads.

Mike

 

[DavidCC]

"karate-esque"

If you are going to mangle 3 languages at a time, please do it properly


It sounds to me like you are wasting alot of energy with all the dancing and jump-kicking, that's why you gas so quickly. Focus on the basic footwork of your style and make it work. From your orig post it sound slike you are trying to add lots of things to your style. Why? Is it not good enough on its own?

 

[Tez3]

Heavyweight, I can't think of one. But Genki Sudo liked to do the Robot in the MMA ring, 'course he was a nut.

Lamont

A friend of mine fought Genki Sudo in London a couple of years back, cerainly neither of them danced while fighting! I can't imagine doing dance steps in a MMA fight I must admit still it could be interesting.

 

[bushidomartialarts]

One could argue that both competitors are dancing the entire time they're in the ring. Rythm, specific sequences of motion keyed to specific input, an almost preternatural awareness of your partner's intent and motion....

sounds like dancing to me. There's a reason they call Judo the 'Savage Ballet', after all.

 

[Blindside]

Well, maybe, but I think Genki just likes to dance.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2247020872310590706

 

[CuongNhuka]

If you're having problems with rep, feel free to contact an Admin. to look into things for you, rather than discussing rep issues in the threads.

I don't really have a problem with the reputation. I just decided to publicy call this person out. I'll be impressed if anyone does anything about. The person is a coward, and I can live with that.

 

[Tez3]

I don't really have a problem with the reputation. I just decided to publicy call this person out. I'll be impressed if anyone does anything about. The person is a coward, and I can live with that.

Of course they may have not realised you have to add your name to it as it's not done automatically?

If you could post up a clip ( like Utube etc) of you sparring we would all know exactly what is it we are talking about!

 

[Shotgun Buddha]

To be honest, it sounds like you're relying on your opponent not knowing or being able to follow what you're doing, rather than developing your actual fighting abilities. I understand you're trying to develop the tactic of disorientating the opponent, but unless you can back that up with straightforward fighting ability, its not a good idea, as it relies too much on the opponents lack of ability, rather than your own skills.

If you want to develop that type of tactic, look to boxing. It remains one of best examples for using footwork tactically.

 

[Adept]

One could argue that both competitors are dancing the entire time they're in the ring. Rythm, specific sequences of motion keyed to specific input, an almost preternatural awareness of your partner's intent and motion....

Except theres no music, and the dancers hit each other!

:ultracool

 

[CuongNhuka]

Of course they may have not realised you have to add your name to it as it's not done automatically?

If you could post up a clip ( like Utube etc) of you sparring we would all know exactly what is it we are talking about!

Yah but I lost a bit of reputation, so I'm guessing this guy has been around for awhile.
And as for Utube, that would require me posting my ugly face all over the web. Maybe I should look into that. My sensei has been threatening to tape me sparring and make me watch a few times. Mostly so I see what it is I'm doing, so I can fix it.

 

[MJS]

Mostly so I see what it is I'm doing, so I can fix it.

This is a very good idea!! I've done this a few times myself. Great reference tool, because the camera doesn't lie.

Mike

 

[DavidCC]

This is a very good idea!! I've done this a few times myself. Great reference tool, because the camera doesn't lie.

Mike

I agree. Just burn the tapes when you are done LOL.

 

[MJS]

I agree. Just burn the tapes when you are done LOL.

LOL! That or keep them sort of like a before and after session, with the hopes that over time, getting better will happen.

Mike