Checking the Storm...

[Seig]

Just wondering why you follow with a knife kick to the same target that you just hit with the front kick? And do you mean knife edge kick as in a side kick? A side kick weapon doesn't fit the groin target.

I'm just wondering your thinking for this in case I am missing something. I teach with the R knife kick to the attackers lead knee to cancel out the back leg.

Teej

It was a mistype, I meant to say knee for the knife edge kick.

 

[Doc]

Is there anyone out there that does not and why?

That method is anatomically unsound and misaligns you more than the attacker. The change was made in the eighties arbitrarily when it we discovered the "chicken" kick was very dangerous in practice with uncontrolled students.

A kick to the lower centerline creates a specific negative posture followed by a kick to the chest in the vicinity of K-23 could cause ventricular muscle spasms, and could easily lead to death. A number of young people are killed every year from being struck with baseballs to the chest when batting due to their negative posture which resmebles the same posture that is assumed when struck in the lower body. After an autopsy, these deaths are usually ruled an "accidential misfortune."

 

[Thesemindz]

That method is anatomically unsound and misaligns you more than the attacker. The change was made in the eighties arbitrarily when it we discovered the "chicken" kick was very dangerous in practice with uncontrolled students.

A kick to the lower centerline creates a specific negative posture followed by a kick to the chest in the vicinity of K-23 could cause ventricular muscle spasms, and could easily lead to death. A number of young people are killed every year from being struck with baseballs to the chest when batting due to their negative posture which resmebles the same posture that is assumed when struck in the lower body. After an autopsy, these deaths are usually ruled an "accidential misfortune."

If I may ask, how do you practice this technique in your school? Do you practice with the original chicken kick or do you practice some other offensive combination. I'm gathering from your post that you don't use the more common front kick side kick combo.


-Rob

 

[Doc]

If I may ask, how do you practice this technique in your school? Do you practice with the original chicken kick or do you practice some other offensive combination. I'm gathering from your post that you don't use the more common front kick side kick combo.

-Rob

Actually the "sidekick/back-fist" version is not as common as the chicken kick version from what I've seen. It is a fairly recent interpretation.

We execute the technique with the double front kicks, but students are taught specific footwork and targets that forces both feet to be firmly planted when kicking. Additionally because of its serious implications with even mild contact, attacking students are taught to make a fist with their left hand, and place it firmly over their zyhphoid process and hug their rib-cage as a safety mechanism. This is done with all of our techniques that have deadly implications in execution. Although there is never accidental "hard contact" when executing, when you utilize significant principles of energy disruptions and pressure point and nerve cavity attacks as a part of the curriculum, even mild contact can/will (and has) caused incapacitating "knockouts" in the classroom.

 

[Doc]

I was wondering why Checking the Storm was taught in yellow (written to step up the circle) and not Evading the Storm (P7) (retreating from the attack and getting out of the line of attack, easier to do than CtS at Y7)
Regards - Glenn.

First you must realize that although commercial kenpo is somewhat systematic, it is only a very loose conceptual system of ideas to be interpreted by various people in the execution, with the final arbiter being the student.

Couple that with the fact that "Checking the Storm" did not exist until after the other techniques were created. Originally when codification began to take place, techniques began at orange. Yellow was a much later addition for various reasons, and even yellow has undergone multiple revisions, additions, deletions, and expansions.

 

[Touch Of Death]

I was never taught the chicken kick version; however, the second kick is instantaneous with the plant if that makes any sense.
Sean

 

[TwistofFat]

First you must realize that although commercial kenpo is somewhat systematic, it is only a very loose conceptual system of ideas to be interpreted by various people in the execution, with the final arbiter being the student.

Couple that with the fact that "Checking the Storm" did not exist until after the other techniques were created. Originally when codification began to take place, techniques began at orange. Yellow was a much later addition for various reasons, and even yellow has undergone multiple revisions, additions, deletions, and expansions.

Thanks for the reply Doc. I am amazed how much I learn everyday! This site continues to be a great resource to compliment my classroom instruction.

 

[Doc]

I was never taught the chicken kick version; however, the second kick is instantaneous with the plant if that makes any sense.
Sean

Of course that makes sense Sean in my opinion, and it is the way I would recommend those with the requisite skills should execute it. The idea of the "front chicken kick" in this scenario has always been flawed, particularly if the initial target is the "groin" or any lower part of the body. The "front chicken kick" has been around at least since the fifties, but creates a significant misalignment in its execution, and has a detrimental effect on the lower spine and lumbar over time.

By placing your foot back on the floor Sean you can allow your hips to regain or retain the proper alignment.

 

[Doc]

Thanks for the reply Doc. I am amazed how much I learn everyday! This site continues to be a great resource to compliment my classroom instruction.

Due to in no small part, the many contributions from all that participate.

 

[kenpo3631]

That method is anatomically unsound and misaligns you more than the attacker. The change was made in the eighties arbitrarily when it we discovered the "chicken" kick was very dangerous in practice with uncontrolled students.

A kick to the lower centerline creates a specific negative posture followed by a kick to the chest in the vicinity of K-23 could cause ventricular muscle spasms, and could easily lead to death. A number of young people are killed every year from being struck with baseballs to the chest when batting due to their negative posture which resmebles the same posture that is assumed when struck in the lower body. After an autopsy, these deaths are usually ruled an "accidential misfortune."

Doc,
In Western medicine it would be referred to as a disturbance of the cardiac cycle during something known as the "Relative Refractory Period". The refractory period has two stages, the Absolute and Relative refractory periods. Think of it like a toilet when you push the handle (the impulse),the water floods the bowl and changes the pressure. The same thing happens in the heart, only faster. Now try to flush it again before the upper chamber fills and nothing will happen. This is similar to the "Absolute" refractory period. The heart has contracted and is now beginning to repolorize or re-charge itself, so any stimulus you send to it will not affect it, (like when you try to flush the bowl immediately after the initial flush).
Think of the Relative refractory period as when the upper chamber of the toilet is about half full, it'll flush but the flush will be weak. The same goes for the cells of the heart, they are not fully charged but they will still attempt to contract if they receive a signal. This is important to remember because an impulse during the relative refractory period can cause premature contractions leading to compromised filling and poor ejection of blood from the heart. This can also lead to life threatening dysrhythmias that severly compromise the hearts ability to pump resulting in rapid death of the patient. It is generally referred to as R on T Phenomenon.

 

[rmcrobertson]

You step up the circle in Checking the Storm? I thought you just stepped to your right, out of the line of attack...and I don't see how stepping forward and to the left, thus Evading the Storm, is retreating....

 

[Touch Of Death]

You step up the circle in Checking the Storm? I thought you just stepped to your right, out of the line of attack...and I don't see how stepping forward and to the left, thus Evading the Storm, is retreating....

Thats a beginng method, but as five swords teaches, you can escape danger by closing the distance. Calming the storm also teaches to get us to get in.
Sean

 

[Doc]

Doc,
In Western medicine it would be referred to as a disturbance of the cardiac cycle during something known as the "Relative Refractory Period". The refractory period has two stages, the Absolute and Relative refractory periods. Think of it like a toilet when you push the handle (the impulse),the water floods the bowl and changes the pressure. The same thing happens in the heart, only faster. Now try to flush it again before the upper chamber fills and nothing will happen. This is similar to the "Absolute" refractory period. The heart has contracted and is now beginning to repolorize or re-charge itself, so any stimulus you send to it will not affect it, (like when you try to flush the bowl immediately after the initial flush).
Think of the Relative refractory period as when the upper chamber of the toilet is about half full, it'll flush but the flush will be weak. The same goes for the cells of the heart, they are not fully charged but they will still attempt to contract if they receive a signal. This is important to remember because an impulse during the relative refractory period can cause premature contractions leading to compromised filling and poor ejection of blood from the heart. This can also lead to life threatening dysrhythmias that severly compromise the hearts ability to pump resulting in rapid death of the patient. It is generally referred to as R on T Phenomenon.

Thank you sir for that info. I've read various studies and although various reasons are given, the conclusions all seem to be the same. Thanks again.

 

[rmcrobertson]

No.

What's the difference between Checking and Calming?

 

[lonekimono10]

this place has never changed

 

[Touch Of Death]

No.

What's the difference between Checking and Calming?

Calming implies you are on the inside and awy from the kill zone of a strike, checking implies you are negating attacks from the outside of course.
Sean

 

[Touch Of Death]

No.

What's the difference between Checking and Calming?

Calming implies you are on the inside and awy from the kill zone of a strike, checking implies you are negating attacks from the outside in, of course.
Sean

 

[KenpoNoChikara]

I learned left transitional cat stance, left front kick, right side blade kick

 

[ATACX GYM]

I remember the chicken kick tech as the first version of CTS I was ever shown...and then I ran into somebody who knew what he was doing with the stick.I stopped using the chicken kick,and started training very functionally visavis weapons.I created a foundational sequence that didn't have the chicken kick in it,got good at eluding and then nuetralizing the stick,and then all of a sudden I could pretty much throw whatever tech that I wanted to throw after I learned how to elude and nuetralize the stick.I don't teach the chicken kick as part of my base,but you will see me use it as I demo variants of my base technique...

ATACX GYM CHECKING THE STORM VS STICK AND KNIFE

PT.1-3 OF 5

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-56S9dX9hY&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBVZlYx4zyM&feature=related

 

[Kenpo Dan]

1987 Mr Parkers Journal has you step to 3:00 to a 45 degree cat, this 45 degree give you a snap kick to groin toward 10:30, angle of attack 10:30. Evading the storm step to 9:00. What has been left out in teaching for punches, sticks, pushes etc is the techniques from 1:30 and 10:30 not all are from 12:00. as listed in 1987 journals, and chapter 7 book five Infinite insights how to find the correct techniques to use. This maybe why people change the foot work and techniques, because the targets won't line with the correct striking angles.