Checking the Storm...

[Kirk]

Originally posted by ProfessorKenpo

you simply move up your circle and kick em the jimmy while your hands are cking

hehehe ... I like the way you worded it. I'll jot that description
down in my notes! :rofl: :rofl:

 

[donald]

I've been taught this technique with the front snap, and right knife edge, but we end it a little differently. Ideally, as we land into the r.neutral we execute the r.back knuckle while we've maintained our hold on the attackers wrist, as the back knuckle lands we're sliding down the wrist, and snapping the club out of their hand, double cross out, and fini ... Sound familar to anyone?

Salute:asian:

 

[donald]

Blindside,

Ideally I have maintained contact with the offending arm, and if he has managed to hang on to his weapon. I will use(ideally) opposing force to remove said weapon with the checking left . To clarify, (ideally) this tech is against a "overhead" club attack. To which I have intially responded to by stepping to 3 pm into a left 90* cat stance, while executing a r.inward parry,l.outward knifehand block/check, which converts to a hooking check to the inside of the offending forearm, and as previously stated. If the weapon is still there after his beating. I will remove it as mentioned/described.

Salute

 

[donald]

3631,

Not a waiter's block, but morphs from an open hand EOB. Into a hooking crane block to attempt to maintain control of the offending appendage. Then you just flow through the technique as previously discussed. I hope I've answered your question?

Salute :asian:

 

[Klondike93]

Checking the Storm

1. Step with your right foot to 3 o'clock into a left cat stance. Your left hand is covering high and your right hand is covering your solar plexus.

2. Execute a left front snap kick to your attacker's groin.

3. Plant your left foot into a left front twist stance with a right side snap kick to attacker's right knee.

4. Land forward into a right neutral bow with a right outward back-knuckle to attacker's temple.

This is the Ideal phase. I was also taught one time to do it with a chicken kick, one to the left knee cap and the other to the groin.

So my question now would be, what would you do with it coming in at a 45, or horizontally? Evading the Storm or Calming the Storm?


:asian:

 

[Klondike93]

Originally posted by donald

I've been taught this technique with the front snap, and right knife edge, but we end it a little differently. Ideally, as we land into the r.neutral we execute the r.back knuckle while we've maintained our hold on the attackers wrist, as the back knuckle lands we're sliding down the wrist, and snapping the club out of their hand, double cross out, and fini ... Sound familar to anyone?

Salute:asian:

As I practice it I tend to keep my left hand on the attacking arm checking it. I don't like to have an attackers weapon waving around at me.

:asian:

 

[Rainman]

Originally posted by Doc



Good question, but no the answer is the same. There is no cross block in Kenpo. One hand defends then the second hand "captures." to be a "X" block, both hands would have to be deployed simultaneously.

In "Defensive Cross" the mechanism is the same as "Obstructing the Storm." The left hand blocks and the right hand controls so the initial block can then capture. Try it, deploying one than the other.

Good question. I see you have your thinking cap on. You're not only asking good questions but, your questions are drawing logical comparisons to see if the conceptual idea holds up under scruitiny. Anytime you guide or capture and use both hands, from "Captured, to Defensive, to Raining," they are always deployed in succession never simultaneously. Sometimes the timing may be tighter than a simple syncopation and end up being Mora beat, but it's still the same in my experience.

Dear Yoda,

What do you think about the attack for cross of death. The cross is employed simultaneouos with the intent to block blood and possibley air. And I would be most interested in your opinion for defensive cross. As I understand it- there is a trapping -striking redirect. I have never thought about doing it as say 1/4 beat timing for the sicsor type application.

Thankyou
RM:asian:

 

[Rainman]

Originally posted by Doc



You are correct :asian: same concept. Right, left, right. Once you work one out, we can talk about another. Mr. Parker says, "Man who put to much on plate, can't eat all he has."

Dear Yoda,

Didn't see the other post- Works for me. One question cross of death- so the attack is definitetly an offensive Kenpo technique in and of it self? That would hold true for all the grappling type attacks but not so much for some of the other attacks that seem to be singular in nature... would this be correct?

Thankyou
RM:asian:

PS for example sword of destruction- Oh yeah Yoda- only looks small.

PPS Squating Sacrifice is dependant on rooting but not with the feet so much as the entire self. When that is done the person would be extremely hard to pick up, if at all even possible. I would say it uses some very advanced concepts to be executed with any success against an experienced grappler.

 

[kenpo3631]

In the mid eighties I learned Checking the Storm with a front chicken kick.

Why was it changed from the original way it was taught (besides creativity from an EP Student...heard that one already:shrug: )?

In the current version, how many people deliver the side kick to the opponent's left leg and why? :asian:

 

[kenpo3631]

Originally posted by Kirk

I learned it as a left kick to the groin followed by a right knife
edge kick to the inside of the attacker's right knee.

Is there anyone out there that does not and why?

 

[kenpo3631]

Originally posted by Rob_Broad

By kicking their the attackers leg knee you are cancelling their height and lower their hed for the ensuing backfist. The backfist will be stronger if it strikes parallel to the ground and even stronger if travelling diagoanlly downward than it would if it had to strike up to the attackers head.

By kicking their the attackers leg knee you are cancelling their height and lower their hed for the ensuing backfist.

Okay....WHICH leg do you mean?:asian:

 

[kenpo3631]

Originally posted by Rob_Broad

By kicking their the attackers leg knee you are cancelling their height and lower their hed for the ensuing backfist. The backfist will be stronger if it strikes parallel to the ground and even stronger if travelling diagoanlly downward than it would if it had to strike up to the attackers head.

By kicking their the attackers leg knee you are cancelling their height and lower their hed for the ensuing backfist.

Depending on which leg you are talking about...:rofl: You would also cancel out the opponent's width by cross checking him.

The backfist will be stronger if it strikes parallel to the ground and even stronger if travelling diagoanlly downward than it would if it had to strike up to the attackers head. [/B]

Yes, the backnuckle would be stronger but you forgot a key ingredient if you use it that way...Marriage with Gravity. The opponent's head should "ideally" be right in line for the backnuckle anyway. It is set up with the first kick. Hee hee, that is if he is still standing after the groin shot..... :rofl:

 

[kenpo3631]

Originally posted by Mace

Quick question for everyone,
How many people actually swing a club the way the attack is written? I know my shoulder can't take it personally.
Respectfully,
Mace

How many people actually swing a club the way the attack is written?

I know it is not polite to answer a question with a question, but how many people actually think the attacker will stop after the over head club????

 

[kenpo3631]

Originally posted by Rob_Broad

I should have stated kicking their left leg with your right side kick. If you were to kick somehow kick the right knee with your right side kick you could accidentally cause their head to snap into you on the way down.

Sorry about that Rob. I replied a little faster to the previous post than you did.

I have to disagree with you on that point though. By kicking the left leg you can send your opponent into a negative orbit causing possible unintentional harm to yourself. If he falls the line to your groin is wide open...:erg:

Just food for thought...:asian:

 

[kenpo3631]

But if you cross check him your body is already in position to check off the unintentional attack. No need to roll anything.


How do you roll the hip by the way? Just turn the foot inboard?

 

[kenpo3631]

Originally posted by Rob_Broad



And if you retain the attacking arm at the hand as it is still holding the club you can control the attacker as he drops, again it comes down to your personal kenpo, the techniques must be tailored to fit the individual. Since I am a smaller guy Iwould rather keep a little distance between the attacker and me until the final strike.

And if you retain the attacking arm at the hand as it is still holding the club you can control the attacker as he drops

I was hoping that both of his hands would grab for his groin after the first kick. Besides won't he be bent over in the first place if you kick him in the groin. If so you won't have a hand to hold on to and the club should be out the picture....."ideally"

 

[kenpo3631]

Originally posted by Seig

Kenpo 3631 brought up a good point when he said ideally. Remember that when we are teaching a new student Checking the Storm, we are teaching in the ideal phase. The more advanced student would start kicking around the what if stage as we are predominantly doing here. Then as they progress, the move onto the formulation phase, which is a lot of what we seem to be doing here.
Just to use an example of how I teach the technique:
Step out to 1:30 with the right foot while parrying with the right hand. Slide into a 45 Degree Cat as you execute a left EOB. Execute a left fron kick to the groin and follow with a right knife edge kick to the groin.
Now depending on the distance and the elvel of the practioner involved after the left front kick is delivered, i may have them change the weapon to a right twist kick. In both instances,if they are close enough to the attacker, I have them follow up with a downward/diagonal back fist to the temple/or mastoid.

Kenpo 3631 brought up a good point when he said ideally. Remember that when we are teaching a new student Checking the Storm, we are teaching in the ideal phase.

Exactly Seig. What I wanted to see in this thread was the cummulative understanding of the body position of the opponent in relationship to the delivery of the kicks and strikes.

The more advanced student would start kicking around the what if stage as we are predominantly doing here.

This is also true. However the "ideal" phase must be taught correctly and understood to properly go about seeking solutions to the "what if's". I by NO means have all the answers, heck I only have a few. But again it has been stressed to me that the "ideal" must be thorough.

Just to use an example of how I teach the technique: Step out to 1:30 with the right foot while parrying with the right hand. Slide into a 45 Degree Cat as you execute a left EOB. Execute a left fron kick to the groin and follow with a right knife edge kick to the groin.

Can I point out one thing with this Seig? In this version you are walking into your opponent's back up weapon. that is why it is taught with a step out to 3 o'clock. Granted it is still not the safest place for the defender, but it gives some distance from the back up weapon.
Someone had mentioned before holding on to the opponent's wrist as you deliver the kick to the knee. Again ideally, if you plant that first kick you should be successful in getting the opponent to drop the club.

Anyway there are many variable...this is just food for thought...:asian:

 

[kenpo3631]

Originally posted by Scott Bonner



Would that really be true? I don't associate getting struck in the groin with opening my hand. If anything, my childhood memories involve rolling around with hands tightly clenched across my tummy.

I don't remember now what Sensei taught me that first time, but when I do the tech now I do the outward block turning into a wrist grab, keep their right hand dead while doing the other stuff, then disarm as I cross out (shift grip to club, strike up on bad guy's wrist to open grip), just in case they still have the club in hand.

As to whether it is realistic to have someone strike directly from above, I have no problem doing the strike and can see how one could put MoG into it, and there are different techniques for different striking angles. And, I've seen Sensei do the thing with giving a beginner a stick and seeing how they attack; they attacked with an overhand club. So, it seems like a good idea to keep to the book when first learning the tech.

Personally, I'd have done a baseball swing to the knees, but he didn't ask me.

Besides that, techs disappear in application eventually, right? It all becomes formulation once we've learned the how and why.

I do the outward block turning into a wrist grab, keep their right hand dead while doing the other stuff, then disarm as I cross out (shift grip to club, strike up on bad guy's wrist to open grip), just in case they still have the club in hand.

I originally learned it that way too...

And, I've seen Sensei do the thing with giving a beginner a stick and seeing how they attack; they attacked with an overhand club. So, it seems like a good idea to keep to the book when first learning the tech.

That's just it. Many martial artists get taught this idea that they are the "karate guy" and that their opponent knows nothing. Did the beginner stop after he was finished with the overhead attack? If he did, it was probably because he didn't know what else to do after that. Will the experience fighter in the street do the same thing? probably not as you expressed later in your post:

Personally, I'd have done a baseball swing to the knees, but he didn't ask me.

My personal feeling is, if you are going to teach students, then teach them realistically. Explain to them that the overhead attack ain't all that's coming. Know what I mean...

 

[kenpo3631]

Originally posted by Scott Bonner

Kenpo3631,

I just looked at your profile and found out that you are way ahead of me on training. I suspect I didn't understand your questions, 'cause I'm sure you already know everything I said. I'm posting this note so you don't take my longer note above as being disrespectful in some way.

Scott,
I am far from knowing everything that is for sure...

When I teach my students I teach they attack as an overhead club w/ a roundhouse change up. I feel that chances are that the guy picked up a club because he has some knowledge on how to use it. I then proceed to show them the technique. I have never had a confused student yet

They do have an appreciation for the attacker and what he might be able to do and don't get into the "I know karate so I am invincible " mentality.

I think that giving students that "what if" gives them a sense of reality when training. Because you know as well as I do the club won't stop after the first swing if given a chance.

As for holding the opponent's arm after the front kick...I did the first move of this technique on someone in an actual confrontation recently and when the kick landed....he dropped the club and fell to the ground in pain.... I've been told Mr. Parker used to say (not verbatim by the way)..."If you gotta hit a man more than three times in a fight you are doing something wrong."

I suggest you do the technique as taught in the studio you study in. There is nothing wrong in the way anyone interperets the techniques as long as you follow the rules of Kenpo.

:asian:

 

[kenpo3631]

Originally posted by Mace

SB,
I have to agree with Mr Broad here, you asked some very good questions that everyone could benifit from. We are all here to learn.
The what if's for techs are virtually endless, but here is where I've gone with checking the storm. What if the attacker has a clue about using the club or puts some speed and authority behind his strikes. I've found with a foam club ( much to my dismay) that almost all the time if your attacker is running even mildly realistic with the overhead and then inward strike you are going to get hit. Hard. And it stings with the foam club, forget it being a real stick or bottle. Now some may argue that stepping off to 3 and firing out the kick will negate the club, but I haven't seen it done at good speeds without the defender getting whacked with the stick. Just my findings, take em for what they are worth.
As to the X block found in obstructing, there's another one where you probably will get cracked in the head with the stick. The wrist still has mobility when the block is executed and force alone will probably bring the club to the top of your head. Again, just what I've found at good speeds.
Respectfully,
Mace

As to the X block found in obstructing, there's another one where you probably will get cracked in the head with the stick. The wrist still has mobility when the block is executed and force alone will probably bring the club to the top of your head. Again, just what I've found at good speeds.

The "X" block is a thread all in its own...

However, if used it is a great transitional way of rerouting the overhead club.

I don't really care for the Technique just b/c both my hands are up in the air (violates the high/low theory) and leaves my body wide open for a possible strike with one of my opponents back up weapons.:asian: