Chambering hand

[Tez3]

I think we may have to be careful about saying 'this is exactly what it's for' or 'it isn't for this' as many of us have different uses for it, I watched Iain Abernethy's description and demonstration of it on his Bunkai Jutsu DVD which is a very practical and easy move to do. I've also been shown other non grappling ways to use it so I think keeping an open mind on any move is the way to get the most out of kata.

 

[seasoned]

As others have stated, the chambering hand is called "hiki-te" and is involved in pulling something back with it into the next technique. Either a limb or a jacket to off balance.

As always there is an apples and oranges comparision being made between karate training methods and sports methods. Boxers have a chamber as well, and there is based on what is best for them in the ring under the rules with big gloves on. Look at how they held their hands in old bareknuckle bouts when they had to worry about low kicks/stomps and hip throws and you will see that it more closely resembles the karate methods. Boxers know they are only dealing with two weapons--right arm and left arm and that it is coming in the form of a punch and those punches are only going to be from the top of their head to just above their naval. Their guard/chamber is based on maximum protection to protect those areas. They also know that they can't grab onto their opponent's limb to pull them. It does not mean that boxing can't be effecive, it's just that it's methods are for a very defined use.

Secondly, karate was based as a civilian self-defense system. It was NOT designed for on the battlefield, it was NOT designed for unarmed peasants to defeat the samauri, and it was NOT designed for two willing contestants who enter into a ring and then square off looking for an opening first. Karate and it's training methods were designed for "normal people" who are attacked by either grab, push, pull, punch (as McCarthy calls it Habitual Acts of Violence) and then you damage your attacker and get away. NOT stand there toe to toe and duke it out. The kata (and other training methods) are ways of dealing with the most common types of attacks that men have used for a VERY long time.

Again, apples to oranges. You are comparing two different goals and training methods to their own unique situations and trying to mix the two.

Here is a VERY good blog on many training methods (basis is Goju-Ryu) and this one is on chambering. Read it and apply WHAT the chamber is really for and it used to achieve.
http://dandjurdjevic.blogspot.com/2008/08/chambering-punches.html

Very good post, as a side note, it seems if I pull their left hand to chamber with my right, it up roots them, and if I pull their left hand with my left it grounds them. Just a thought.

 

[jeff5]

Just looking at the number of different posts here and applications given, I think you can see that the chamber is a very good root, or base position which many things can come out of.

That chamber position is seen in my arts, and many countries. Look at some old western boxing pictures, you'll see them doing it.

In the study of our forms and applications (in KunTao Silat) my instructor has illustrated several different purposes for this positon.

The elbow is used for a lot of throws, trapping and leverage in what we do. To do this correctly you have to have "heavy" elbows, and use your lats, core to suck the elbow into your body. Your using your big muscles and your core instead of just your arms is much more effecient, powerful, and effective.

The hand can have something in it. It could be pulling something back, the finishing position for a throw, someone's head, arm, leg, etc. It can be used for trapping and breaking. In these applications your pulling back to your center mass, your core, sucking in, which has a lot of leverage.

In some cases you could also be guarding sensitive areas of your ribs and torso. (depending on how high or low you hold the chamber) In many silat styles the chamber starts low, near the hip, with the other hand supporting. This was because it was common for Silat players to target the spot just below your hip bone in order to damage/sever the muscle and cripple you. So the starting position in many instances guarded this spot.

It can also be used for many chi gung/breathing/dynamic tension exercises working heavy elbows, power generation, and many different things.

My take anyway. Great thread and good info!!