Challenge the instructor?

[Kung Fu Wang]

Yang Jwing Ming told a story of a guy walking in and challenging him to a fight once. He was teaching a Long Fist class at the time. He told the guy to take a seat and that he would be with him as soon as class was done. As he worked with his students on various strikes and joint locks the guy sat and watched. However Dr Yang was so busy teaching he did not pay much attention to the guy. When class was over, the guy was gone. Said he saw the guy on the street a couple times after that and all the guy did was say "Hello Master Yang" and keep walking by.

Instead of getting into a fist fight, there are many ways to make the challenge more civilized.

Someone challenged the preying mantis master Brendan Lai. Brendan said, "When I punch you, if you can block my punch, you win, otherwise, you lose". When Brendan said that, Brendan moved his fist toward his opponent's chest. The guy thought Brendan was going to punch toward his chest. When Brendan punched, Brendan punched at his face instead.

Someone challenged SC master David C. K. Lin. David said, "I'll attack you 3 times. If in any of my 3 attacks, you can stand on your feet for more than 3 seconds, you win. Otherwise you lose." In all 3 David's attack, that guy could not stand on his feet for 3 seconds.

In all examples, you try to lead the challenge toward your strong point (such as Brendan's fast punch, and David"s throwing skill). IMO, it's a good strategy.

 

[marques]

Ever have someone come in and challenge the instructor to fight? I know it sounds like something out of an old move but I know it can happen. It happened to me once.

Some guy came in and challenged me to fight. Now this is a scenario loaded with liability issues. In that case my senior students stepped to the front and escorted the guy out. No questions asked.

Any thoughts?

I have seen the sparring time as an opportunity for the new guys to ‘fight’ instructors or other students. Subtle fights, so it is hard to spot and stop early...

 

[dvcochran]

I have had one total stranger come in before a class and ask to spar (not fight). I said fine, we spar at the end of class and he was welcome to workout. He agreed. When it came time to spar he admitted he was too gassed and politely left. Never saw the guy again.
I have had many causal acquaintances, like people I knew from other schools show up to spar.
I feel spar is the key work here. I have never had someone come in and actually challenge me to a "duel". That would really seem silly.
What would I do if a person actually challenged me?
I would take the encounter away from the workout area and away from any people, preferably outside.
I would verbally engage the person and try to rationalize and de-escalate the confrontation.
I would have a senior student with me if possible, for all the reasons you can imagine (backup, liability, etc...).
If the situation did not de-escalate (still no hands-on) the senior student would go call the police, letting the person know what was happening.
If it still did not de-escalate and he tried to go hands-on, then the choice is made for me.
I would never, never say or do anything to escalate the confrontation. But, I would never turn my back on the person. That is not some misguided ego thing. Just playing it safe.

 

[Xue Sheng]

I got challenged by my instructor once...does that count
Xingyiquan; I lost

 

[CB Jones]

Johnny Linebarger And Roger Hurd Challenge.

I talked to Mr Linebarger this year at our world championships. Super nice guy. Enjoyed hearing him talk about the old days.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

Johnny Linebarger And Roger Hurd Challenge.

I talked to Mr Linebarger this year at our world championships. Super nice guy. Enjoyed hearing him talk about the old days.

Interesting video. It illustrates the difference between “controlled contact” and “light contact”. In the beginning, white gi (Linebarger?) is landing his shots in a very light, respectful, friendly manner. As black gi (Hurd?) persisted in throwing his shots with intent to hurt, white gi gradually delivered more and more impact. Regardless of the contact level, he was choosing exactly how much force he was applying. It was a clear demonstration of “I could knock you out if I wanted to, but I’m choosing not to. However if you keep on acting like an asshat there will be consequences.”

 

[marques]

Johnny Linebarger And Roger Hurd Challenge.

I talked to Mr Linebarger this year at our world championships. Super nice guy. Enjoyed hearing him talk about the old days.

Skill and big balls here.
Most ‘experts’ just do everything they can to avoid the possibility of a serious test. All they know is talk, talk, bla, bla...

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Interesting video. It illustrates the difference between “controlled contact” and “light contact”.

I don't like this kind of challenge. You will never know how it may end.

If someone challenges me, I'll say, "If you can

- punch on my head within 20 punches, you win, otherwise you lose.
- break my grip within 10 tries, you win, otherwise you lose."

Since I let my opponent to play the offense and I only play the defense, The outcome can be more predictable and less chance for people to get hurt.

If you can turn a challenge fight into an arm wrestling challenge, the world will be more peaceful (I had accepted a public arm wrestling challenge before).

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

I have had one total stranger come in before a class and ask to spar (not fight). I said fine, we spar at the end of class and he was welcome to workout. He agreed. When it came time to spar he admitted he was too gassed and politely left. Never saw the guy again.
I have had many causal acquaintances, like people I knew from other schools show up to spar.
I feel spar is the key work here. I have never had someone come in and actually challenge me to a "duel". That would really seem silly.
What would I do if a person actually challenged me?
I would take the encounter away from the workout area and away from any people, preferably outside.
I would verbally engage the person and try to rationalize and de-escalate the confrontation.
I would have a senior student with me if possible, for all the reasons you can imagine (backup, liability, etc...).
If the situation did not de-escalate (still no hands-on) the senior student would go call the police, letting the person know what was happening.
If it still did not de-escalate and he tried to go hands-on, then the choice is made for me.
I would never, never say or do anything to escalate the confrontation. But, I would never turn my back on the person. That is not some misguided ego thing. Just playing it safe.

I think you hit the nail on the head here. Thinking about it, I've sparred/asked to spar my instructors countless times. I've also had instructors ask me if I want to hang back after class and spar them. Entirely friendly, I wouldn't consider that a challenge at all, nor would i suddenly think I'm superior if I manage to "beat" them once. A challenge, however, is something I would never think of doing.

 

[dvcochran]

Johnny Linebarger And Roger Hurd Challenge.

I talked to Mr Linebarger this year at our world championships. Super nice guy. Enjoyed hearing him talk about the old days.

The ending of the video said it all to me. Clearly white Gi had control of the whole room. Even when he bowed out black Gi was not sure what to do. Big props to both of them.
Thank you for posting it.

 

[_Simon_]

Haha and this just appeared on my feed XD. Such a bizarre situation... just find it amazing that anyone would go into a martial arts hall, filled with trained people training dangerous techniques and methods, to be troublesome, unreal.

Mcdojolife - Shout out to KMD Self-Defense & Fitness for... | Facebook

 

[_Simon_]

Johnny Linebarger And Roger Hurd Challenge.

I talked to Mr Linebarger this year at our world championships. Super nice guy. Enjoyed hearing him talk about the old days.

Utterly fascinating... thank you for posting!

Interesting video. It illustrates the difference between “controlled contact” and “light contact”. In the beginning, white gi (Linebarger?) is landing his shots in a very light, respectful, friendly manner. As black gi (Hurd?) persisted in throwing his shots with intent to hurt, white gi gradually delivered more and more impact. Regardless of the contact level, he was choosing exactly how much force he was applying. It was a clear demonstration of “I could knock you out if I wanted to, but I’m choosing not to. However if you keep on acting like an asshat there will be consequences.”

Yep absolutely. Linebarger... never heard of him... but wow.. my hero haha. Loved his sparring, and yep he increased the intensity under control, according to how his opponent was behaving. How many sweeps were there too haha..

Hurd... you could tell he was intent on proving something and legitimately trying to hurt his opponent. Swinging wildly at times and those spinning back fists.. just trying to hurt the guy. Ripping his gloves off was just funny...

 

[dvcochran]

Haha and this just appeared on my feed XD. Such a bizarre situation... just find it amazing that anyone would go into a martial arts hall, filled with trained people training dangerous techniques and methods, to be troublesome, unreal.

Mcdojolife - Shout out to KMD Self-Defense & Fitness for... | Facebook

I wondered what era/year this occurred in. I did not see anyone in danger, other than the two sparring, and that was only in the normal confines of MA sparring. That said, you could tell the match certainly had the attention of the people coming out of the dressing room.
It would be good information relevant to the thread to know how the match was initiated. For the most part it looked like a good example of two guys from similar styles who just wanted to go at it. Nothing wrong with that.
I thought it was a great example of testing one's limits without losing your cool. It looks like there is a lot of respect between those two.
Great video.

 

[JP3]

Everyone challenges my instructor. It is called open mat.

I was thinking the same thing. Today's schools typically Do have an Open mat session at least 1x/week. The instructor (me/you/him/whoever it is) is usually out there rolling with everyone else. Challenge there, no problem.

Seems as if it's different for striking arts, there's a whole different set of concepts involved int hat from back int he day as I understand things. Today? No way one of those would actually "be a good idea."

 

[CB Jones]

Yep absolutely. Linebarger... never heard of him... but wow.. my hero haha. Loved his sparring, and yep he increased the intensity under control, according to how his opponent was behaving. How many sweeps were there too haha..

Mr Linebarger trained under Robert Trias in Phoenix, Arizona and others. He was a great competitor and champion in point sparring in the 80s competing in USKA and other organizations. He currently has a school in Tucson (KhoSho Karate).

It wasn't supposed to be a challenge match. Mr Hurd had made comments that Mr Linebarger was a fraud so Mr Linebarger invited him to work out and spar with him to show him that he was not. Mr Hurd had different intentions.

 

[dvcochran]

I was thinking the same thing. Today's schools typically Do have an Open mat session at least 1x/week. The instructor (me/you/him/whoever it is) is usually out there rolling with everyone else. Challenge there, no problem.

Seems as if it's different for striking arts, there's a whole different set of concepts involved int hat from back int he day as I understand things. Today? No way one of those would actually "be a good idea."

We are open door as long as someone isn't coming in acting a fool. As a rule the visitor works out for the whole class before sparring. Seems fitting for both sides.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Everyone challenges my instructor. It is called open mat.

I don't think that's what he's talking about.

If someone came in and wanted to play during open mat time, I'd be okay with that. If they come in and challenge me, they aren't welcome in the school. The difference is mostly attitude and intent.

 

[_Simon_]

I wondered what era/year this occurred in. I did not see anyone in danger, other than the two sparring, and that was only in the normal confines of MA sparring. That said, you could tell the match certainly had the attention of the people coming out of the dressing room.
It would be good information relevant to the thread to know how the match was initiated. For the most part it looked like a good example of two guys from similar styles who just wanted to go at it. Nothing wrong with that.
I thought it was a great example of testing one's limits without losing your cool. It looks like there is a lot of respect between those two.
Great video.

Ah okay fair enough. I could see elements of that, but overall it didn't seem respectful at all from one side anyway... didn't feel like a friendly sparring bout, and I definitely cringed seeing it. @CB Jones said it wasn't meant to be a challenge initially, but Hurd said the other was a fraud. But very interesting bout to watch for sure..

 

[_Simon_]

Mr Linebarger trained under Robert Trias in Phoenix, Arizona and others. He was a great competitor and champion in point sparring in the 80s competing in USKA and other organizations. He currently has a school in Tucson (KhoSho Karate).

It wasn't supposed to be a challenge match. Mr Hurd had made comments that Mr Linebarger was a fraud so Mr Linebarger invited him to work out and spar with him to show him that he was not. Mr Hurd had different intentions.

Wow.. fascinating circumstances... AND outcome..

 

[drop bear]

I don't think that's what he's talking about.

If someone came in and wanted to play during open mat time, I'd be okay with that. If they come in and challenge me, they aren't welcome in the school. The difference is mostly attitude and intent.

Do people turn up to your open mats often and spar you?