Chain Punch

[Danny T]

Chain punching is a very important aspect of WC training as well as in application. Within that chain punching has several purposes.

1. In training one punches in the very specific cycling action on the centerline to be exercised for learning to punch on the line while cycling. This strengths the shoulders, elbows, and wrists as the practitioner learns to relax while punching.

2. In partner drills by chain punching on the center line the partner learns to defend the line by being on the centerline and by not chasing hands. They learn to simply go to the centerline regardless if attacking or defending.

3. Once the centerline is understood and the ability to maintain it one learns to follow up with the opposite arm immediately if the first arm is not in control of the line. If in control then the following arm continues on into a strike. If it is unable to due to being blocked or impeded then the chain punching brings the opposite arm into play immediately for trapping, removing the obstacle, or maybe to just create a response.

4. To strike in combinations stringing arm movement together for attacking or counter-attacking.
There are other reasons but these should give food for thought.

Timing, range, cadence will change the punching combination tactics.

 

[geezer]

Isn't chain punching/striking just a misconception -- by which, I mean, making a "technique" out of something that isn't a technique to begin with?

... as the centerline is open, we strike. This is the principle of lat sao jik chung. If, after striking the first time, the center remains open, you should continue striking. That's not a technique. That's just common sense.


....attack and follow the flow while utilizing the core principles of the system; which is to control the centerline, and attack instinctively when it is open. If that happens to be a chain of punches or strikes, then "chain punching" was the result, but not the source.

I agree completely.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

To me, the "chain punches" is like the "chain kicks - one front kick after another front kick (linear)". If you do it over and over, your opponent may be able to detect your pattern and take advantage on it. But if you can mix it with your "roundhouse kicks (circular)", you may have better result.

 

[geezer]

You may use "double spears" strategy to deal with "double straight line punches" such as jab and cross. This way, you can protect your center from outside in.

This strategy came from the ancient Chinese spear technique. When your opponent uses spear to stab you, you use "clockwise circle" or "counter-clockwise circle" to deflect it, you then move in after that. If you treat each of your arms as a spear, you have "double spears".

These circular movements look a bit large and cumbersome to be practical against short fast "chain punches", or a boxer's jabs for that matter --unless you are already in contact with an opponent's arms or "bridges". In that case you are in more of a "chi-sau" like situation. Then indeed WC uses such circles, only smaller, to gain the inside line. In WC such movements are huen-sau (circle-hand) or kau sau (plucking hand).

The comparison to the spear is very apt and is similarly used in the WC luk dim boon kwun fa or long-pole technique which has roots in Chinese spear movements.

 

[Vajramusti]

On The so called wing chun chain punch. It is not an add on- but imo it has been corrupted in it's meaning. For development I might have a hundred punches. In application I might need just 3 well timed punches .For development I am punching alone so at the end my whole arm is straight. In application I will punch through an opponent for explosiveness and my arm will be bent. And the fist coming back is as important as the fist going out
increasing the explosiveness of the punch. It takes a while to learn to punch well keeping a square body with the upper and lower body coordinated throughout the gravitational path specially at the dan tien. The wing chun punch is NOT a western boxing punch where the shoulders are loaded
The internal aspect of the punch includes the focused mind and intent, minimal tension in muscles and the skeletal structure acting as one coordinated unit..In a flash the whole body will be the punch without losing balance and being able to flow into other movements.
I am describing an aspect of what I do without arguing with snake body, side body, WT or TWC or other folks. They might have things that work for them.

 

[Buka]

Transk -- check out the following videoclip of Alan Orr explaining how he trains chain punching with his fighters. I find his approach very practical.

@Yak -- Check out Alan's not-so subtle digs at the way a lot of WT guys train chain punching. Punching with the elbow going up and losing energy, not controlling the opponent's body so he can trade punches, and so on. He makes some good points. Unfortunately, you do see all of that in a lot of WT. (Bad WT, or WT training viewed out of context, that is. The really good guys don't look like that at all!) Any thoughts?

That was really good, it was helpful to me. I understood some things I had thought about from times past. I'm a visual learner. Once in a while a light bulb goes on.

 

[yak sao]

...In a flash the whole body will be the punch without losing balance and being able to flow into other movements.

I think that is the big mistake that is made when applying the punches of WC. Most want to stay at a boxing range and hit only with their arms...this can be very easily dealt with by an opponent.
When performed properly, you are hitting with your whole body...the fist is just the delivery system....this is not so easy for an opponent to deal with.

 

[KPM]

You may use "double spears" strategy to deal with "double straight line punches" such as jab and cross. This way, you can protect your center from outside in.

Hey John! Interesting! In the 52 Blocks system your "double spears" is one of the "Blocks" referred to as "Uptown." ;-)

 

[tkdwarrior]

Transk -- check out the following videoclip of Alan Orr explaining how he trains chain punching with his fighters. I find his approach very practical.

@Yak -- Check out Alan's not-so subtle digs at the way a lot of WT guys train chain punching. Punching with the elbow going up and losing energy, not controlling the opponent's body so he can trade punches, and so on. He makes some good points. Unfortunately, you do see all of that in a lot of WT. (Bad WT, or WT training viewed out of context, that is. The really good guys don't look like that at all!) Any thoughts?

That is how I envision chain punching to be, linking your offense to your defense.

 

[yak sao]

That is how I envision chain punching to be, linking your offense to your defense.

This is how every attack should be done, regardless of what it is. While chain punching can be relentless, they shouldn't be mindless. In other words, we don't just flip on a switch and become Rock 'em Sock 'em robots...throwing punches in a flurry and hoping to God one of them finally gets through and we hit him more than he hits us.

The arms should develop springiness through chi sau so that the fists aren't simply clubs on the ends of battering rams. They should fold and bend around whatever obstacle or whatever force is being given to us by the opponent, all the while maintaining structure..be it tan sau, bong sau, jum sau...then, when the opening is presented, the arms lash out. But again, this is very important, as Joy stated above, in a proper punch, it's not just the arms but the whole body.

 

[Danny T]

In our wing chun we don't punch, we crash!

 

[geezer]

...chain punching can be relentless, they shouldn't be mindless. In other words, we don't just flip on a switch and become Rock 'em Sock 'em robots...throwing punches in a flurry and hoping to God one of them finally gets through and we hit him more than he hits us.

How NOT to chain punch:

On the plus side, these guys do keep their elbows low, fists vertical and a steady upright stance. Not so good at covering centerline, but if one gets an angle on the other, it's all over.

P.S. We've got one of these games and in my house I rule!

 

[Thunder Foot]

Another beneficial aspect of chain punching, in addition to many of the ones mentioned is the coordination of both hands. Not only maintaining centerline, but also training this principle in terms of a push and pull force which can amplify our techs. If we look closely enough, it has potential to be an integral part of all our Wing Chun techniques.

 

[Jake104]

[QUOTE="yak sao, post: 1678175, member: 17858"]I think that is the big mistake that is made when applying the punches of WC. Most want to stay at a boxing range and hit only with their arms...this can be very easily dealt with by an opponent.
When performed properly, you are hitting with your whole body...the fist is just the delivery system....this is not so easy for an opponent to deal with.[/QUOTE]


This is why you see boxing dominating novice Wing Cun guys so often. It's hard to get past that range without eating a few... Chain punching for me is also the linking of punches. Not the bicycle punching you often see. It can be any number of punches. It can be performed at different levels, from high to low, with even a circular huen choi thrown in here and there.

 

[Jake104]

How NOT to chain punch:

On the plus side, these guys do keep their elbows low, fists vertical and a steady upright stance. Not so good at covering centerline, but if one gets an angle on the other, it's all over.

P.S. We've got one of these games and in my house I rule!

I miss those kind of toys. You should invite me over to " train" sometime? Hint hint! Haha!

 

[Transk53]

I miss those kind of toys. You should invite me over to " train" sometime? Hint hint! Haha!

Yeah me too

 

[Transk53]

Chain punching is a very important aspect of WC training as well as in application. Within that chain punching has several purposes.

1. In training one punches in the very specific cycling action on the centerline to be exercised for learning to punch on the line while cycling. This strengths the shoulders, elbows, and wrists as the practitioner learns to relax while punching.

2. In partner drills by chain punching on the center line the partner learns to defend the line by being on the centerline and by not chasing hands. They learn to simply go to the centerline regardless if attacking or defending.

3. Once the centerline is understood and the ability to maintain it one learns to follow up with the opposite arm immediately if the first arm is not in control of the line. If in control then the following arm continues on into a strike. If it is unable to due to being blocked or impeded then the chain punching brings the opposite arm into play immediately for trapping, removing the obstacle, or maybe to just create a response.

4. To strike in combinations stringing arm movement together for attacking or counter-attacking.
There are other reasons but these should give food for thought.

Timing, range, cadence will change the punching combination tactics.

Sweet reply. Thanks

 

[Transk53]

Another beneficial aspect of chain punching, in addition to many of the ones mentioned is the coordination of both hands. Not only maintaining centerline, but also training this principle in terms of a push and pull force which can amplify our techs. If we look closely enough, it has potential to be an integral part of all our Wing Chun techniques.

Push/pull force. Interesting, I would have leaned towards a lot more push. So the two start to work in tandem?

 

[Kwan Sau]

Push/pull force. Interesting, I would have leaned towards a lot more push. So the two start to work in tandem?

Simple physics.

 

[yak sao]

When I chain punch, I'm not pulling my other hand back, rather I'm allowing my triceps to relax which causes my fist to retract to the area of the elbow of the other arm.
Think of a light switch on a wall...instead of clicking the triceps on, then off again when you pull the arm back, think of a dimmer switch. The punch goes out, the switch is all the way on, when the punch relaxes, the tricep is being "dimmed" but is still "on".
This gives springiness and constant forward force to the arm even in retraction.
If you pull the arm back, you are activating the biceps. A strong opponent can use that to his advantage and crash through by adding to your pulling motion.