CCW holder stops robber in Burger King

[Andy Moynihan]

*sigh* Let the record show I tried.

 

[sgtmac_46]

It comes down to risk vs reward. A guy robs a Burger King register, he's in and out and makes off with say, $120. BK's got insurance etc.

Getting yourself and possibly others shot over just that is relatively pointless. On top of that, the businesses actively fire employees who confront robbers. So doing nothing becomes perceived as the defacto response.

Again, the assumption that you can read the mind of an armed robber, or predict the future rears it's head.......unfortunately too often armed robbers don't read the script, as incident after incident after incident where cooperative victims were shot during armed robberies can attest.

What we have, given that erroneous belief, is a false choice.......simply give up the money or fight. The money is moot.......as the choices aren't just cooperate and simply lose the money or fight.......the alternative very often is cooperate and die!

And, unfortunately unlike Hollywood movies, there isn't usually conveniently obvious foreshadowing and signs to illustrate at what point he's going to start shooting........they don't always follow the script and conveniently laugh maniacally before saying 'And NOW Mr. Bond....you will DIE!'

 

[MJS]

Again, the assumption that you can read the mind of an armed robber, or predict the future rears it's head.......unfortunately too often armed robbers don't read the script, as incident after incident after incident where cooperative victims were shot during armed robberies can attest.

What we have, given that erroneous belief, is a false choice.......simply give up the money or fight. The money is moot.......as the choices aren't just cooperate and simply lose the money or fight.......the alternative very often is cooperate and die!

And, unfortunately unlike Hollywood movies, there isn't usually conveniently obvious foreshadowing and signs to illustrate at what point he's going to start shooting........they don't always follow the script and conveniently laugh maniacally before saying 'And NOW Mr. Bond....you will DIE!'

What amazes me, is that this is the 2nd thread, in which we see the 'the bad guy will do this' mentality. I agree 100% with what you're saying here. I'm also amazed at why someone would want to wait until their life is really in danger instead of acting sooner. Some, again, going on the assumption that the bad guy will respond in a certain way, would rather comply and then, and only then, if the badguy appears he's going to do away with the victim, will they react.

One of my old teachers used to have a saying, that he'd say usually during sparring class....."You wait too long, you wait wrong." IMHO, that applies to many things in life, especially in situations like we're discussing now. If an opening presents itself during the initial phase of the robbery, take it!

I also have, in that other thread, pointed to cases, in which the badguy, once the robbery is done, kills the vicimt(s) because he's afraid he'll be ID'd. Again, this shows that the badguy didn't read the script.

I guess there are some schools out there that teach mind reading in addition to the martial arts. *shrug*

 

[zDom]

ANOTHER thing to consider:

It has occurred to me that few, if any, bad guys take the time to go through a gun safety course before they start waving those Glocks around.

That means that they are probably


• NOT being careful to only point their weapon in a safe direction

(in fact, it is reasonable to assume they are, in fact, intentionally pointing it at people with complete disregard for their safety)


• and are NOT "indexing" — that is to say, they probably have their finger ON the trigger the entire time.


What I am getting at is, we don't NEED to know what their intentions are as far as shooting/not shooting people during the robbery.

That fact is, there is the possibility they may ACCIDENTLY shoot someone.

Generally a person may use reasonable force when it appears reasonably necessary to prevent an impending injury.

If they are running out of the store with the bag of money — nobody should be shooting at them.

If they are pointing a firearm at people demanding money, they may very well end up killing someone. Happens often enough, doesn't it?

How many times have we heard the "accidently shot them during a robbery/robbery attempt" line?

 

[MJS]

Well, first of all, I must raise my glass to the memory of those who perished.

Next, I must say that, no, I don't think this is what Bill's after. I think a text only medium has had a field day with getting our wires crossed over one difference of opinion that diverges only on one part of the subject, but is magnified by our choices of words without our inflection behind it or the opportunity to see each other's faces/ask for clarification that a face to face talk would allow.

That's all that started this, and I think it is sad that it hasn't been realized before it got to this point. I'm not pointing specific fingers, it's a general observation.

Now let's ALL of us go up to the bar and lemme get you something, round's on me.

Well, I will start off by saying that yes, I agree with what you said regarding things on the net. I've said it before myself, that many times its hard to interpret what everyone is saying.

However....I still stand by my analogy a few posts down with Persons A, B and C. Hey, I suppose if someone wants to wait, thats what they have their heart set on, fine. But, IMHO, thats kinda like driving in heavy traffic. You see the traffic slow in front of you, so you start slowing down when you're still way back, vs. waiting until you're 10ft. from the car in front of you and then say, hmm...maybe I should stop. LOL! Either way works, but in the 2nd case, you just may crash.

 

[Sukerkin]

Another very good string of posts coming from positions of experience and knowledge, gentlemen :tup:.

 

[Marginal]

Again, the assumption that you can read the mind of an armed robber, or predict the future rears it's head.......unfortunately too often armed robbers don't read the script, as incident after incident after incident where cooperative victims were shot during armed robberies can attest.

What we have, given that erroneous belief, is a false choice.......simply give up the money or fight. The money is moot.......as the choices aren't just cooperate and simply lose the money or fight.......the alternative very often is cooperate and die!

Yes, and I don't necessarily agree with the thinking I outlined. I do believe that it's the thinking that gives the do nothings inertia however.

 

[sgtmac_46]

Yes, and I don't necessarily agree with the thinking I outlined. I do believe that it's the thinking that gives the do nothings inertia however.

Agreed....you hit the nail on the head.

 

[sgtmac_46]

What amazes me, is that this is the 2nd thread, in which we see the 'the bad guy will do this' mentality. I agree 100% with what you're saying here. I'm also amazed at why someone would want to wait until their life is really in danger instead of acting sooner. Some, again, going on the assumption that the bad guy will respond in a certain way, would rather comply and then, and only then, if the badguy appears he's going to do away with the victim, will they react.

One of my old teachers used to have a saying, that he'd say usually during sparring class....."You wait too long, you wait wrong." IMHO, that applies to many things in life, especially in situations like we're discussing now. If an opening presents itself during the initial phase of the robbery, take it!

I also have, in that other thread, pointed to cases, in which the badguy, once the robbery is done, kills the vicimt(s) because he's afraid he'll be ID'd. Again, this shows that the badguy didn't read the script.

I guess there are some schools out there that teach mind reading in addition to the martial arts. *shrug*

Maybe they teach it along with the 'No Touch Knockout'............ i'm also not aware of a martial art that teaches one how to dodge/deflect/catch bullets traveling 960ft/s.