Catholics are Chritstians!!!

[qizmoduis]

yeah, I'm still going to be intolerant of other religions that don't accept Christ as Personal Lord and Saviour

Well, isn't that sweet? And people wonder why the world is in the terrible state it finds itself these days. It's because of this attitude expressed above.

Well, as an atheist, I have no problem tolerating your religion, even if I find it's beliefs unrealistic, so long as you folks leave me to my own devices. But YOUR beliefs, I find to be morally repugnant. Your parents should've taught you better.

 

[loki09789]

Nicely put qizmodius,

If accepting Christ as your personal savior is personal for you, it should be personal for everyone, and that was part of the message that Jesus was proclaiming: The institution can not tell you what your relationship with God is or is not. No one Christian church can tell me what path or what way is the 'right way.' You have to make it right within you. Free will and all that.

Repecting anothers path, being an example of what your faith should be.... If your faith is personal, then so is mine or any one elses. Wish us well, pray for us, but don't judge us. Christ did not stand for any one institution, people long after he was dead started claiming ownership on the franchise, and made some pretty political and worldly messes because of mixed motivations/arrogance and greed.

Put as bluntly as possible:

Wolf: Get off of your moral high horse.

The idea that no man can save himself with good deeds is an important message for a Christian. Accepting Jesus as the Messiah is essential to Christian faith. Based on this idea, the motivation to follow the teachings of Jesus is NOT the fear of damnation but the expression of love of Christ. You might accept Christ, but you are not expressing much love of him when you talk about intolerance.

Paul M

 

[someguy]

I should say that this thread was not directed 100% at you wolf but more like to sooooo many people out there who say this sort of things. It seems particularly rampant in the south (at least where I live) though I am also not saying all southerners are like this as I my self am a southerner.
Now as for you saying you will continue to be intolerant towards other religions WWJD comes to mind. Was Jesus intolerant to other religions. Nope he tolerated them but tryed to get them to convert. He did not smite them where they stood as I recall. Maybe I'm wrong though who knows.
:asian: peace :asian:

 

[ShaolinWolf]

Oh Paul, just shut up...I'm sorry, but call it a moral higher horse, or whatever, but I will not tolerate any religions...besides, mine isn't a religion, it's a lifestyle and way of life...I'm not backing down on the subject, but I won't argue with open-minded people either. And in my understanding, I'm not a bigot or a morally high person on his horse he believes that he's better than everyone else, it's just I've found a Truth that many will spend their entire lives searching for and will never find, sadly.

In my opinion and what a ton of other true Christians have said, being closeminded is what is good. My mind is protected by Jesus Christ and is closed to the thought of being in a religion, especially one that does not honor God or have a personal relationship with him. You can go your path, but I'm going mine. Also, Christ keeps things from entering my mind by closing it and keeping me able to be defensive.

I would like to say one thing: I am sorry about the way I went about attacking everyone. I should have done it in Love. And arguing with openminded people is like trying to get a mule or donkey to do something that it doesn't want to do. Not until you've understood the full Truth will you come to the conclusion that Christians are not bigots, but followers of the One and Only True Living God, the God of Israel. To go with that, yes he is the God of Israel, as referred to in the Bible, but the Jews rejected God when he came to earth, and killed him, so how you Jews say they worship God without having a personal relationship throuh Christ Jesus? Well, that one is simple: They can't. I feel bad for the Jews. I really do.

I'm not bringing up why I feel bad for the Catholics, because this forum is set up just to attack people like me. And don't say it's not all about me. It's kinda of funny that the person who started this forum started it right after I made my statements about Catholics not ALL being Christians. hmmm...pretty pathetic if you have to actually do that just to prove in a counter-attack that Catholics are Christians. THe world knows that Catholics are "Christians", but that's the world's view. In God's eyes, a Christian is one who has accepted that they are a sinner and need redemption through the shed Blood of Christ. They accept the fact that He died for them and that they are not Perfect. God loves us. It's just us who don't love him, unless we are Christians.

And to those who are calling me a nonChristian: Yes, I may have been a bit rash in how I went about my typing, but if you TRULY are a CHRISTIAN then you understand my words. I'm not sorry for what I said, just the way I said it. But, you'll never sway me from the fact that all Religions are wrong, it just matters whether you've chosen your life to be a Christian and follow Jesus Christ. And I don't care what you all think, it's my belief and my want to follow Christ. He is where my Joy is. So, naturally, I want others to know the Joy I have. And if they don't want it, scorn it, toss it aside, then I pity them because they have rejected Salvation and Love. I love the Lord Jesus Christ and he has rescued me from the Pits of Hell, and given me New Life.

 

[ShaolinWolf]

Ah, but I'm not intolerant to the point that I don't want to convert. Yes, I have friends that believe different that me. I don't excommunicate them. I try to convert them. That doesn't mean that I would go to their church.


Ok, maybe tolerate is a bit too strong a word, but in my mind I don't tolerate religions without God and Jesus Christ as their focus. and that they don't believe in Christ the way I do. But I don't just go around saying, "YOU, BUDDHIST, YOUR GOING TO HELL AND I WILL NOT TOLERATE YOU!!!!"...lol...no...I just am saying what my opinions are and my beliefs...I have long theological talks with many friends who are not Christian...and I don't shut them out of my life. I pity them and want to help them. I just don't tolerate their beliefs in my life. As I see it, I will not be swayed...

 

[someguy]

I explain that I did not do this to insult you then you call me pathetic and also say I am being untruthfull? THis is what can be implied by your statments. Take a breath now another then consider what you said. Now if you still mean what I have said above than I don't really care so be it. I intend to let it slid either way.
I think that is enough on that but no that this thread was not meant to attack you. Your posted only made me post this here as it is becoming a GIANT pet peave of mine to hear catholics aren't christians.
hope that made sense

 

[Nightingale]

Wolf-

The people I've seen who've been most effective about bringing people to Christianity have been the folks who've stopped talking about it and started living it.

 

[OULobo]

Ok, maybe tolerate is a bit too strong a word, but in my mind I don't tolerate religions without God and Jesus Christ as their focus. and that they don't believe in Christ the way I do. But I don't just go around saying, "YOU, BUDDHIST, YOUR GOING TO HELL AND I WILL NOT TOLERATE YOU!!!!"...lol...no...I just am saying what my opinions are and my beliefs...I have long theological talks with many friends who are not Christian...and I don't shut them out of my life. I pity them and want to help them. I just don't tolerate their beliefs in my life. As I see it, I will not be swayed...

I don't think that you are intolerable of other religions, you just believe emphatically in your personal religious choice and are trying to show others your beliefs in hope that they will see what you see as the error of their ways and in so doing change their behavior and belief to something more akin to your own.

 

[OULobo]

it is becoming a GIANT pet peave of mine to hear catholics aren't christians.

This is my issue too. That and that some of the statements made earlier were flat out wrong. I would have to say that the best way to argue this point and to resolve the situation is to say that anyone he believes that Catholics aren't christian should attend a mass and speak with a preist. Some of the things I heard earlier miffed me because they were misconstrued and rather uneducated opinions. I sought not to attack, but to enlighten by describing the motivation, symbolism and belief of a Catholic.

 

[loki09789]

Wolf,

The point that, as a Christian, saved by the blood of Christ, we still have free will to choose how we behave when we realize that, no matter what, we are saved because of that ultimate sacrifice.

"Oh Paul, just shut up...I'm sorry, but call it a moral higher horse, or whatever, but I will not tolerate any religions...besides, mine isn't a religion, it's a lifestyle and way of life...I'm not backing down on the subject, but I won't argue with open-minded people either."

And you have chosen to act like this. I have expressed my understanding of your faith system. I find your language very non Christian in tone and nature, based on ANY Christian lifestyle/religion/faith.

Look up some research about those who don't tolerate other peoples faiths in relation to the Carlisle schools and the number of dead Native American children on the boarding school rolls because the institution, not willing to tolerate other religions, wanted to elevate the lives of those poor dirty pagans.

Tolerance comes from understanding, it doesn't mean you have to agree. It does mean that you won't judge others or attack them because of those differences... sounds awfully christian to me.

Paul M

 

[Nightingale]

Matthew 7:1-5

Judge not, that ye be not judged.

For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam in thine own eye?

Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

This is my issue too. That and that some of the statements made earlier were flat out wrong. I would have to say that the best way to argue this point and to resolve the situation is to say that anyone he believes that Catholics aren't christian should attend a mass and speak with a preist. Some of the things I heard earlier miffed me because they were misconstrued and rather uneducated opinions. I sought not to attack, but to enlighten by describing the motivation, symbolism and belief of a Catholic.

I personally enjoy discussing things with priests. They often times have a much greater insight into things than you see sitting in the back pew on Sundays. I've had some good debates as well, and have almost always come away with a greater understanding of things.

I was once told "its a shame you're not a christian bob. You 'get it' better than half the people in my church." I do understand it, and see alot of good in the faith. Its just not my path.

A friend of mine just found his. He was hesitant to talk to me about it. I told him "We've been friends for like, ever. You've found something in your life that you've been missing. I won't ridicule you or demean you over that. I'm happy for you. I will however ask, when you found Jesus, did he admit to knowing your aunt?" (Note: shes one of the nutty types). He had a good chuckle and we moved onto other things more important than if my Goddess could out dance his God, y'know?

 

[OULobo]

A friend of mine just found his. He was hesitant to talk to me about it. I told him "We've been friends for like, ever. You've found something in your life that you've been missing. I won't ridicule you or demean you over that. I'm happy for you. I will however ask, when you found Jesus, did he admit to knowing your aunt?" (Note: shes one of the nutty types). He had a good chuckle and we moved onto other things more important than if my Goddess could out dance his God, y'know?

Awwww. I'm gettin all warm and gushy inside. J/K

If you think talking to a priest is fun, try talking to a rabbi. They are a blast. They are down to earth, learned and well read.

Consequently, I have noticed that modern day clergy are very good at being secure in their beliefs and not pressing them on to you. They are also very good listeners and give great advice on non-religious matters. I don't know if it is the training, the job itself or the type of person that it frequently attracts, but they are great to talk to.

 

[Rich Parsons]

I walk my path.

I expect others to walk their path, no matter what path it is.

Sometimes we cross and the flow is good, other times we are counter productive.

In Free Will if you cannot choose your own path then, there is no free will.

Wolf, if you believe the way you do, can I ask why you do? Do not answer me, just think about it for yourself. Do you believe the way you do because of what you were told as a child? Because of what your parents believed? Or did you actually go out and choose a faith, by truly investigating others. If you are just spitting back up the rhetoric of your parents and family, then are you truly of a religion. Or are you just socialized to what is acceptable to your family. Like I said, I do not expect an answer. I just wish for you to think about it.

For you see if I apply your logic, to your comments here.

You are a sinner. You are going to Hell.

You cast judgement. You throw the first stone, out of hate, and fear and self rightousness.

Since you will not tolerate me. If I do not tolerate you, and insist that you are wrong unless you do it my way, because GOD IS ON MY SIDE, then I can say you are going to hell. I can cast you out of the Christian Faith, for you are not a Christian.

As done in the past I could say Might is Right, and challenge you to a fight. If I win you must convert to my religion or die. And if you win, then I would have to do the same. Is your faith strong enough to defeat me? Is your faith strong enough to handle the thought of you being converted? (* For this is what you do to others by trying to convert them. *)

Yet, I choose not do and of this. I ask you to sit back, and think upon what you have said, and how you have said it. Think on how you have called me and others a JackASS and stupid, and ..., . When if you were to look into the mirror you might find what you are describing for not allowing others their own path and their own free choice.

Offer a helping hand to those that you see in trouble. Offer a smile to those who are sad. If your inspiration comes from your religion then so much the better for you. Do not convert people at the tip of a sword, which in my stupid crazy and going to hell opinion, I believe you have been trying to do.

Breath In
Breath Out (* Machine Head by Bush *)

Think about it. Not for me. For your self. For if you believe you cannot learn, even patience for people like me, then you are saying you are like gos and need more time on this earth.

Breath In
Breath Out

Relax and think about it.

Peace
:asian:

 

[loki09789]

I don't know if it is the training, the job itself or the type of person that it frequently attracts, but they are great to talk to.

I would think it is the combination of all these categories. Much like a martial arts master who can see and recognize the concepts/elements of all martial arts as present in their personally chosen art, but respect and recognize other structures even if they don't agree with the set up.

Paul M

 

[ShaolinWolf]

I have not cast judgement on anyone. You have been the one to throw the first stone. I merely have stated my OPINIONS, and as such they seem to be like a dart to you, and I am sorry the ways I have said them, but seriously, look at it from all sides.

And yes, my Parents have raised me to be a Christian, but I've done my own studies along with them because of my love of God. I'm not being a Christian just to pacify my parents. And it may sound that I'm some kind of fundamentalist, but I've been sorting through stuff. And, if anything, I'm not a fundamentalist, I just get upset with the fact that people don't realize the truth. I guess I've got to tone it down a bit. I've been in a debate with what used to be my best friend(knew him since I was 3) and now he's on a path to destruction(you all know what I mean...party life, sex, alcohol...) and I used to think he was a Christian, as such he told me so. Now he's an atheist. And from the debates we've had(he likes the blunt way of saying things, so I've gotten used to blunty stating things), he still see the only way to life is party. And yes, everyone has their own right to whatever path they want, be it heaven or hell, but it hurts to see a friend go through the trauma he goes through...

So, what I'm tryin to say is, I'm sorry, I've just gotten used to bluntly stating the facts when I type. I shouldn't have attacked the Catholic religion like that, but I also know so many catholic people who call themselves Christians and then I ask them what I've asked you, and they say they will get to Heaven on good works and such and that because they are catholic, they are also Christian. Having the type of Church you go to slapped onto your "religion" tag does not make you a Christian, no matter what anybody says. Being a Christian has more to it than just that.

Yes, I've been rude, but being rude does not mean I'm not a Christian. Christians are not perfect. I'm a sinner like the rest. But if we were perfect, why then would we need God or Jesus for that matter?

I'm sorry for typing snidely, and plan to be more responsible. And if you to condemn people, think yourself. I am a Christian, because I truly meant the sinner's prayer and believe that Jesus died for me. I love Jesus, and whether you like it or not, I'm going to Heaven because of that. And is my FAITH strong enough to be converted to another religion. That is not going to get a straight answer, because I wouldn't take the whole world and then some to convert to another religion. My FAITH is strong enough to resist the temptations of another religion. I WILL NOT convert to another religion, only because I have seen the Truth, whether others do not see what so many that I know, including me have seen.

And as to converting by the sword, well, I don't do that. I only spouted things on here, because it was seriously conversational. Only like an email that I would receive whenever I checked rather than bold face. I love people and do not want to see them go to Hell. That is why I have been so vehement. Whether you believe me or not is up to you, but I don't want to see even you go to hell. That's probably hard for you to see, but I don't want anyone going to hell. AND NO I'M NOT PASSING JUDGEMENT ON YOU. I don't know where you are exactly in your FAITH. So, I'm just stating that I don't want anyone to go to hell. So, don't turn it around and say, "Well, your condeming me to hell!"...because I AM NOT!

Anyways, I've got to go to Work now. So, I'll be back on later. Bye

 

[Rich Parsons]

Wolf,

I am sorry you are having problems with you friend.
:asian:

Yet,

On one hand you say you are not passing judgement.

On the other hand you are saying if I do not do exactly as you are doing then I am going to hell. So, you are passing judgement on me and others. Because I do not belong to your church and follow your rules to the truth you believe. I am going to hell.

I do appreciate the fact that you have stated you will try to present yourself better.

 

[loki09789]

"So, what I'm tryin to say is, I'm sorry, I've just gotten used to bluntly stating the facts when I type."

Personally, I can accept the apology, but I can't understand the inconsistency of the 'opinion' statement and then the above. Is it fact or opinion.

I am Catholic and have been asked the question about being saved and why. Honestly, it is a trick question because, according to Baptists, there is only one way to answer it. Anything else is 'wrong' and out comes the sales pitch.

I 'witnessed' at a Baptist church in high school. When I got older, I went through adult confirmation and the Catholic Church accepted my Baptism, with no documentation - based on the witnessing by my parents.

The equivelant of 'accepting Jesus as my personal savior' from what I can tell in Catholicism is the idea of 'rising and dieing with the Lord' everyday. Everyday I will rise - meaning be a truer expression of my love of Christ - when I do good deeds and conduct myself according to Christ's teachings. In the same day, I will die with the lord when I act/behave outside the teachings of Christ. As far as I understand, Baptists acknowledge the daily struggle as well, but the Catholic wording speaks to the constant and never ending cycle of sin and forgiveness that we all go through. The terms and language might be different, but the idea of acknowledging personal imperfection and powerlessness and accepting that Christ is the way is in both faiths. The importance of striving for good deeds and thoughts is also in both....

Another thing that I heard, from a Church of England member, is that prayer doesn't change God, it changes me.

Paul M

 

[Tgace]

What do you think happens to a "good" person say of the Buddhist faith? This person does good deeds, helps others, lives a righteous life and is an all around good person. Just because he hasnt "accepted Christ as his savior" he goes to hell and eternal damnation?? While some people I see in church (who I know are some of the biggest a$$&@!es ) go to heaven?? If thats the way God plays this game then count me out.

 

[ShaolinWolf]

yeah, well TGrace...Those "asses" probably won't quite get high honors in Heaven...They go, but also did they truly accept Christ also? You gotta wonder sometimes. Yeah, I know what you think of me, but I have said so all too many times. But if you keep on trying for Christ after accepting him as personal Lord and Saviour and just not Give up, because he doesn't give up on you, then your going to have a big reward in Heaven...A nice big Mansion, a high place(as in the first on earth shall be last in Heaven, and the Last on Earth shall be First in Heaven). That's what's the reward. They may not get much other than a shack and some small position in heaven because they aren't doing much other than asking for fire insurance...


And Rich...I was talking as a whole...you can believe what you want, but it's in writing...I said NO I AM NOT CONDEMNING YOU...And if you are Saved, then I'm happy for you and I was just saying that as an example...I don't want anybody going to hell...like that, not I don't want everybody including Rich Parson, who is going to hell...blah blah blah...I never said anything like that in the above post...And, I don't know what else to say, other than unbelievers, from the Truth that I believe go to hell...and it is shared by all too many, not just me...and also, it's not just "my church", the Baptist, Methodist, etc. are not the only one's that share this belief in Christ...it's alot of denominations...so, I would say it's a lifestyle rather than not believing the way a church believes...do you believe in the lifestyle?

And anyway, I try to tone it down a bit and all you can do is criticize me...I mean come on...lol...j/k

And Loki, I can't say it's a fact...I know it to be a fact, but some people around here don't want to here the word fact, and they start tearing into me..so I say opinion...to you and me, it's a fact...and you did accept Christ though verbally, right? I mean asked for forgiveness, said the sinner's prayer and acceptance of sin, eh? Good works won't get you to Heaven, it's belief and faith in the lord Jesus and all that I just mentioned...JUST ASKING...And Rich, don't go slice my head off with a katana, please...And if you want to say I'm shoving it down people's throat, I'm just asking a question...I haven't passed judgement...it's in words, no judgement, just a question, ok?!