Bruce Tegner

[Danjo]

Well, here's the new thread so that jukado1 can participate/interfere(?)

Please answer the question that has been posed to you if you indeed know the answer: Did Bruce Tegner actually train with the organization that gave him the rank in Karate or did he merely get by via imitating the 8mm films and the atemi waza that he had from his study of Judo?

If, as you argue, that a punch is a punch and atemi waza from Judo is equivelant to a fifth degree black belt (or even a first degree) in Karate, then shouldn't everyone just be cross-ranked? would you hand out a black belt in Jukado to someone that read the book (yes I have a copy) and sent in film of themselves doing the tricks in it? or would you find that somewhat unethical?

Or maybe since I was only around for the last couple of years of the 1960's, you could tell me if ethics have changed since then as much as the martial arts have?

 

[jukado1]

If you could read and knew "karate" you would have already known the answer, In order to learn the punching of karate as compared to martial arts fighting all that you need to do is "dumb down" your technique, "Judo" men also know how to punch, In order to learn/do the form the only real difference is to remember to bring your free hand back to your hip rather then to just tork your shoulder back but keep your hand where its still ready to block and strike, The movements of karate are not any different than the movements that the real old time judo men did, Karate is just the specialization of punch/kick, So passing a belt test is just about learning the form, And the original Japanese karate styles did NOT have all the silly contortions that are taught in some of the martial "ARTS", Did Bruce take classes with shukokai instructors, No, But Bruce could fight if he had to, And that's what the "fighting " arts are about, Not the fact that the left hand must be held at a 37 degree angle in Kata 4, Bruce always taught us that fighting is not part of a style, Bruce, As Bruce Lee would try to teach a few years later was its own style, NOT a set of prearranged dance steps, Now if you still don't understand let me know and I'll try to explain it again later.
This was written at 08:00 this (Friday) morning, And finished at 08:49 Friday.

 

[jukado1]

http://www.network54.com/Forum/326583/

http://www.sanjosekenpo.com/

[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Trebuchet]Return to Forum [/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Trebuchet]Bruce Tegner

[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Trebuchet]September 19 2006 at 5:45 PM[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Trebuchet]

Dan Weston (Login Danjo1)
from IP address 4.232.78.45[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Trebuchet]

Response to Newest 10th Degree[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Trebuchet]This was the story behind one of Bruce Tegner's diploma's he got in Karate from Japan in the 1950's. The story goes that he went to Japan and really tried to ingratiate himself and get a fairly high rank (3rd degree I think--remember when that was considered high rank?) from someone over there. Finally they gave him the rank, but he couldn't read it as it was in Japanese. On the back cover of his first Karate book, he had a copy of the certificate. Someone who read Japanese clued him in to the fact that it basically said that he was given the rank because he'd begged for it. It didn't appear on any subsequent editions.[/FONT]

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[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Trebuchet]http://www.network54.com/Forum/326583/post?messageid=1158713149[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Trebuchet][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Trebuchet] [/FONT]

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  [*] Since Mr. Weston seems to have very little knowledge of these facts, He still speaks as if he is an authority, And this was posted over 2 years ago, well Mr Weston, You "may" have knowledge of the art you practice, But if you are as through in your art I would doubt it, This is the second time you've attacked Bruce, And from what I see your facts and your willingness to try to actually learn are limited, Usually I try to give everybody respect, But in your case I don't believe you've earned it.[/FONT]

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[Twin Fist]

you need to back the hell up off of Dan. He EARNED his karate BB, unlike that joke you are defending.

and i dont blame you, you HAVE to defend the fraud since you studied under him, making YOU a fraud too. If he is exposed, so are you.

 

[Twin Fist]

Bruce always taught us that fighting is not part of a style, Bruce, As Bruce Lee would try to teach a few years later was its own style, NOT a set of prearranged dance steps

of course Tegner didnt teach a "style"

he never learned one.....

 

[yorkshirelad]

you need to back the hell up off of Dan. He EARNED his karate BB, unlike that joke you are defending.

and i dont blame you, you HAVE to defend the fraud since you studied under him, making YOU a fraud too. If he is exposed, so are you.

This whole thing reminds me of a guy who claims to teach TKD mixed with a bit of Kenpo and and had to explain what he was doing to a testing board that didn't have a clue, so that they could skip rank him from 2nd to 4th Dan.

 

[jukado1]

And master Twin Fist you are ?? What knowledge do you bring to the forum, You do not even have the guts to post your name, In my book that just shows your a key board master, While Danjo speaks without knowledge, He has the guts to do so with his name out in public, He does take responsibility for his words, NOW, What do you want to base your knowledge of Bruce Tegner on, Did you ever see him ? Have you ever worked out with him ? Am I a great master, NO, Am I a great fighter, NO, But I have been in martial arts/fighting for a few years, And I have worked with and been beaten up by some good fighters, And I have worked with some decent fighters, Let me do some name dropping, After Bruce retired I did some training with a gentleman by the name of Joe Lewis, Does Joe think that I am really good, NO, I've learned from Mike Stone, I've trained with and helped to train a fighter by the name of Howard Jackson, And been shown some boxing by his trainer, Julio Flores, At one time I helped a young lady by the name of Graciela Casillas who won a couple of kick boxing and some boxing matches, Since you are so knowledgeable why don't you see if I am who and what I say I am, And than tell us who you are and what your credentials are.

 

[celtic_crippler]

If you could read and knew "karate" you would have already known the answer, In order to learn the punching of karate as compared to martial arts fighting all that you need to do is "dumb down" your technique, "Judo" men also know how to punch, In order to learn/do the form the only real difference is to remember to bring your free hand back to your hip rather then to just tork your shoulder back but keep your hand where its still ready to block and strike, The movements of karate are not any different than the movements that the real old time judo men did, Karate is just the specialization of punch/kick, So passing a belt test is just about learning the form, And the original Japanese karate styles did NOT have all the silly contortions that are taught in some of the martial "ARTS", Did Bruce take classes with shukokai instructors, No, But Bruce could fight if he had to, And that's what the "fighting " arts are about, Not the fact that the left hand must be held at a 37 degree angle in Kata 4, Bruce always taught us that fighting is not part of a style, Bruce, As Bruce Lee would try to teach a few years later was its own style, NOT a set of prearranged dance steps, Now if you still don't understand let me know and I'll try to explain it again later.
This was written at 08:00 this (Friday) morning, And finished at 08:49 Friday.

Just so I can keep up...

That's a "NO" to the question as to whether or not Mr. Tegner trained with a "live" karate instructor...right?

However, his Judo skills and rank are not in dispute...right?

 

[Bill Mattocks]

I don't know much about Bruce Tegner, nor about the various authenticities in dispute here.

What I do know is that his little chapbooks were on sale in grocery stores in small towns in the mid-west when I was growing up, and they provided kids like me with some interesting insights and basic material in a world where there was no internet, when martial arts training was found only in relatively big cities, and before TV and movies made it famous.

For that, I believe Mr. Tegner is due some respect. He was a pioneer who seems to have spread knowledge of martial arts styles and at least exposed people who might then go on to learn more or 'more authentic' styles on their own.

I don't have any strong feelings one way or another, but I suspect if we can give David Carradine credit for popularizing CMA, we can give Tegner credit for exposing martial arts in general to the general public.

 

[Sukerkin]

I too have no horse in this race but I think that Bill makes an important point there; one worthy of a little consideration at least. That is despite the fact that I have no truck with those that present themselves as being other than they are in terms of certification or authenticity.

 

[shaolinmonkmark]

to twinfist and Danjo,

"why do i feel like this is going to be a video we find in an attice called:
8 mm part3 ??? "
LOL!!

My take is this:
1. Can you learn from a video? (Yes, but not 100% of what the technique teaches)
2. Do i think Teg honestly was ranked and earned correctly?

(we do not have enough conclusive proof.)

(Hope that ends this "Flamed out 8mm part3 thread.)

 

[Carol]

to twinfist and Danjo,

"why do i feel like this is going to be a video we find in an attice called:
8 mm part3 ??? "
LOL!!

My take is this:
1. Can you learn from a video? (Yes, but not 100% of what the technique teaches)
2. Do i think Teg honestly was ranked and earned correctly?

(we do not have enough conclusive proof.)

(Hope that ends this "Flamed out 8mm part3 thread.)

Lemme get my saw

 

[jukado1]

Was Bruce Tegner loved by the martial arts community of the 60s ?, NO, Did he know what he taught ?, YES, Bruce Tegner was disliked by the martial arts "EXPERTS" of his era because he did not push the party line, In the 60's if you wanted to learn martial arts you were expected to give your life over to your style, Instructor, And train to become a shining lite for your school, You were not allowed to think for yourself, You had to take your instructors word as law. Bruce Tegner, Both in his school, And in his books tried to see that "martial arts" could be done as a hobby, Sport, Could be done as we now can play tennis, Golf, Or any other past time without giving up your life for it, Most of you are way to young to remember what the martial arts scene was in the 60/70's, For every fighter we had 10 people who thought that karate was taking some kind of a silly stance, Eating rice, and knowing Japanese/Chinese/Korean, Bruce was not liked because he downplayed all of these things that made karate instructors feel like little gods, I've been around for a little while, And I've seen all the shots people take at anybody who does not believe they have all the answers, For those in kenpo, look back and see what most of the traditionalists thought of Ed Parker, Or put in ANY other name, You'll find someone taking verbal shots at them, Now for all of you, Do you know what your talking about, I can sit here and call some of you phonys, But the truth is I would not know most of you if I ran into you on the street, If I saw you in your school Would I know enough too insult you, I doubt it, If you've worked with Bruce or at lest watched him workout in person you at lest have a basis for an opinion, But the blind following the blind will not help you gain knowledge.

 

[theletch1]

Attention all users:
This may be a good time for everyone concerned to review the rules of the board. Pay special attention to those rules which dictate friendly discussion and those regarding our policy on fraudbusting. Tough questions are allowed, even encouraged and proof of claims is appreciated but should be asked for and given in a proffessional and as close to cordial manner as possible.
Attention all users:

-Jeff Letchford
-MT super moderator

 

[shaolinmonkmark]

Attention all users:
This may be a good time for everyone concerned to review the rules of the board. Pay special attention to those rules which dictate friendly discussion and those regarding our policy on fraudbusting. Tough questions are allowed, even encouraged and proof of claims is appreciated but should be asked for and given in a proffessional and as close to cordial manner as possible.
Attention all users:

-Jeff Letchford
-MT super moderator

No offense, mod, but Danjo started "the official thread"
that is what this is.
Am I right?????
We are all sticking to the post on behalf of Danjo, and Jud.(?)

 

[zDom]

I don't know much about Bruce Tegner, nor about the various authenticities in dispute here.

What I do know is that his little chapbooks were on sale in grocery stores in small towns in the mid-west when I was growing up, and they provided kids like me with some interesting insights and basic material in a world where there was no internet, when martial arts training was found only in relatively big cities, and before TV and movies made it famous.

For that, I believe Mr. Tegner is due some respect. He was a pioneer who seems to have spread knowledge of martial arts styles and at least exposed people who might then go on to learn more or 'more authentic' styles on their own.

I don't have any strong feelings one way or another, but I suspect if we can give David Carradine credit for popularizing CMA, we can give Tegner credit for exposing martial arts in general to the general public.

I agree. My very first exposure to the martial arts that I remember was a Bruce Tegner paperback I borrowed from my dad's bookshelf.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Gentlebeings, please review this sites policies on things such as fraud busting, polite interaction, etc. Staying within them will allow you to discuss this matter without further mod notes, infraction points, or forced vacations, and save us the resulting paperwork, headaches and so on. Your cooperation is greatly appreciated.

Thanks.

 

[John Bishop]

No offense, mod, but Danjo started "the official thread"
that is what this is.
Am I right?????
We are all sticking to the post on behalf of Danjo, and Jud.(?)

I'm not really understanding what you mean by "official thread", since Danjo is not a MT staff member.
This is just a discussion thread like any other thread, and is bound by the same forum rules as all threads.
We can discuss this subject without participating in any personal attacks on those living or dead. Present facts, and feel free to give your opinion on the facts. We can all give our opinion on things such as long distance training, video training, traditional training, non-traditional training, teaching methods, etc.
Saying someone is a "phony" is a insult and in some cases may be against the forum rules. Giving reasons why you think their background, training, or teaching methodology is flawed is a purposeful discussion, and not against the rules.

 

[Twin Fist]

yo yorky, exactly what is your problem with me?

oh wait, now i get it, attacking people that point out self promoters, liars, and charletons is sort of a personal thing with you.

why was that again?

oh yeah......



jukado1,
what are my credentials? well, for one thing, my instructors were actually RANKED in what they taught.

thats a start......

"Bruce Tegner was disliked by the martial arts "EXPERTS" of his era because he did not push the party line"

or because he claimed rank he didnt earn.......either way

BTW, my real full name was included in my sig line, but thats disabled because i have been a bad bad boy.

I dont hide anything. Ask around, you will see. Long time posters know the names of not only myself, but both my kenpo instructors and my TKD instructors, and my full lineage.

 

[yorkshirelad]

yo yorky, exactly what is your problem with me?

oh wait, now i get it, attacking people that point out self promoters, liars, and charletons is sort of a personal thing with you.

why was that again?

.

I saw your 4th Dan test on youtube and thought it was quite interesting. The panel didn't seem to have a clue what you were doing. I saw that you represented Kenpo by throwing in "Delayed sword" I had to laugh at that one. I noticed that you were explaining everything that your students were doing, so that the panel could in someway understand your art. They bumped you up two ranks with minimum knowledge of what you are doing.
Instead of pointing out others misgivings, why don't you focus that critical mind on yourself and maybe you'll turn out to be a better martial artist and person.