bruce lee in todays world

[Littledragon]

This can't go anywhere productive.

Right because he is dead lol.

But you are right who are we to predict what Bruce can or can't do.



Tarek

 

[jeffkyle]

But great point Ed Parker questioned tradition in his style of Kenpo which was a giant step in the martial arts but what I was getting at was Bruce Lee was the one of the first multi dimensional fighter realizing that putting too much confidence in ONE style is cheating to yourself in how to sucesfully defend your self in a street situation.



Tarek

"One of" was the most accurate part of your statement.

 

[Littledragon]

"One of" was the most accurate part of your statement.

Please tell me what else was not accurate so I can grow and learn knoweldgeably as a martial artist.

Tarek

 

[Flatlander]

Bruce Lee was the one of the first multi dimensional fighter realizing that putting too much confidence in ONE style is cheating to yourself in how to sucesfully defend your self in a street situation.

This has become a commonly held belief. Remy Presas also comes to mind...
How about Dan Anderson, ever heard of him?

 

[Littledragon]

This has become a commonly held belief. Remy Presas also comes to mind...
How about Dan Anderson, ever heard of him?

Yup heard of them both, I am found of Remy and his brilliance and mastery in escrima/kali and philliapino martial arts.



Tarek

 

[Flatlander]

Yup heard of them both, I am found of Remy and his brilliance and mastery in escrima/kali and philliapino martial arts.



Tarek

Given your fondness for Professor Presas, then you must know

From Mano Y Mano, by Master Dan Anderson:
"In 1957 Professor Presas established Modern Arnis and was officially declared the father and founder of Modern Arnis by the Filipino Government.

Modern Arnis is the name Remy Presas gave to his personal distillation of a combination of Filipino Martioal Arts, karate, judo and jujutsu."

Bruce Lee was born in 1940.

From the introduction of The Tao of Jeet Kune Do:
"At the age of thirteen, Bruce started lessons in the wing chun style of gung fu..."

That makes Bruce 17 years old with 4 years of Wing Chun training when Professor Presas founded Modern Arnis, so to say

He was the one who paved the way for Mixed Martial Arts combinding styles together in order to form one that includes the techniques you need in order to be a sucesfull fighter.

and

but what I was getting at was Bruce Lee was the one of the first multi dimensional fighter realizing that putting too much confidence in ONE style is cheating to yourself in how to sucesfully defend your self in a street situation.

would be an inaccuracy.

IMHO,

Dan

 

[Littledragon]

Given your fondness for Professor Presas, then you must know

From Mano Y Mano, by Master Dan Anderson:
"In 1957 Professor Presas established Modern Arnis and was officially declared the father and founder of Modern Arnis by the Filipino Government.

Modern Arnis is the name Remy Presas gave to his personal distillation of a combination of Filipino Martioal Arts, karate, judo and jujutsu."

Bruce Lee was born in 1940.

From the introduction of The Tao of Jeet Kune Do:
"At the age of thirteen, Bruce started lessons in the wing chun style of gung fu..."

That makes Bruce 17 years old with 4 years of Wing Chun training when Professor Presas founded Modern Arnis, so to say

and

would be an inaccuracy.

IMHO,

Dan

Ok thank you for clearing that up I have learned alot from this post. I am very fond of Professor Presas he is a true master in the martial arts and I respect people like that. I have never studied Modern Arnis but I am open to anything. Thank you for that great information I just learned something new from this thank you.

Tarek

 

[MA-Caver]

Ofcourse I have heard of Ed Parker, foundner of American Kenpo.
Like I posted before one of his quotes I look up to the most, "I keep constantly hearing that this style is better than that style. It is not the style it is the man..."

Tarek (16)

I am not a Kenpoist (though I have re-started my studies with the art a little bit) so this cannot be construde as biased posting by any definition. The (below) is taken directly from page 32, 66 and page 76 of "Ed Parker's Infinite Insights Into Kenpo" Book One. This is (partially) what Parker had to say about Bruce Lee:

My connection with the T.V. and Movie Industry enabled me to introduce and establish Bruce Lee in the "Green Hornet" T.V. series which led him to other roles and eventually to stardom. I first met Bruce in San Francisco through a mutual friend James Lee (no relation to Bruce). James and I continuously discussed, compared, analyzed, and dissected the Martial Arts whenever we were together. <snip> James always kept me abreast of the latest Martial Arts developments, and therefore, called me one day to tell me of his meeting with Bruce Lee. He was excited when he spoke to me on the telephone and requested that I fly to Oakland, California to meet Bruce. "This guy is fantastic!" he said. "You've got to meet him."
Meeting Bruce was indeed an experience. He was fast, and for a man of his stature, very powerful. He spurted forth lots of philosophy that day in addition to showing his physical prowess. He expounded on the merits of "Wing Chun", of chi sao (sticky hands), and the logic behind straight line action. He left no doubt of his ability and intelligence.
He had a cocky attitude, but treated all who were there with respect. It was apparent that he could back up his philosophies. I was impressed with everything that he did that day with the exception of his Wing Chun stance which I later proved detrimental to the executioner. As I witnessed his performance, I could envision him performing for others -- especially for those who were from systems that were set in their ways.
I felt that a demonstration by Bruce at my first world wide annual tournament in Long Beach, CA would enlighten the Martial Arts world. His demonstration did just that. Seeing Bruce perform did make others realize that there was more to the Martial Arts than anticipated. I filmed Bruce's demonstration that day (Aug. 2nd 1964) in color and sound. It was the showing of this film to Bill Dozier, producer of the "Green Hornet" series (who originally wanted to cast Bruce in a series called "Number One Son", a take off from Charlie Chan, that landed Bruce the part of Kato, side kick of the Green Hornet. There was no doubt in my mind that exposing Bruce on T.V. would enhance interest in the Martial Arts world wide. This was another rewarding experience.
----
Before the late Bruce Lee was officially introduced to the American Martial Arts World, he and I had many long discussions at my home when he was a house guest, and after his introduction when we travelled together across the United States on numerous occasions to attend tournaments. In comparing and exchanging Martial Arts philosophies, concepts, and discoveries, he concurred that there are three main stages of learning with each stage subject to plateaus of graduated progress. The three are the primitive, mechanical, and spontaneous. It was from this discussion that the "logo for the first 1964 International Karate Championships (the event where Bruce Lee was first introduced to the Martial Arts World) got part of it's meaning.
-----
Bruce Lee was indeed a remarkable Martial Artist gifted with abilities beyond many of the world's greatest athletes. Although his exposure was brief, he influenced many as evidenced by advocates perpetuating his teachings and philosophies. But as I am approached by many of his followers sermonizing "there is no help, but self-help", "no style", style, " we do not suddenly become free we simply are free," formulas can only inhibit freedom", or "take that which is useful and discard the rest", I often wonder if they understand what Bruce really meant. In fact, I doubt if they have taken the time to fully analyze many of his statements. Perhaps if they did, their philosophical outlook would take on more realism. <snip>
(footnote 9) Bruce at no time disclaimed the usefulness of an instructor or the study of a base as some of his followers (who never studied with him) claim. However he felt that while an instructor can supply you with a base, he is no more than a guide. Once the base is obtained, it is the student who must utilize the base as it applies to him. In otherwords, a student must use the base for himself. "You learn" he said, "by studying your own cause of ignorance."
(footnote 10) Here again, Bruce was not opposed to learning the basics of a system. He was opposed to getting caught up in the regimentation of the basics of a system. He never made a distinction between the terms system and style, he nevertheless believed that a style should develop from within the individual. He felt that instructors were only useful in taking a student to a certian point. Expression from that point on came from within an individual. As he explained it to me, as verified by Dan Inosanto, "a system binds you." Wing Chun's forte, he said requires maintaining a particular distance for their straight blast punch to be effective. Bruce, therefore, found himself bound by Wing Chun's calibration of distance and according to him, liberated himself from the Wing Chun system in order to effectively function at any given distance or range.

The above paragraphs (verbatium) tell me that Parker had indeed great respect for the man and was happy to have a hand in getting Bruce introduced to Hollywood which elevated him to his (now) legendary status. He also knew Bruce well enough to understand him better than most of us today. This shows that Bruce was an innovator in Parker's view by creating Jeet Kune Do, just as Parker was an innovator with the creation of his American Kenpo and so on with others.
Does this make Bruce Lee the "greatest"? Absolutely not. Nor does creating American Kenpo make Ed Parker the "greatest". It does make the two (among many others) great because they help broaden the (inner and outer) knowledge gained from the study of Martial Arts.
As I've said earlier in this thread. Lee was a brilliant performer, an extremely talented actor and an extraordinarly gifted Martial Artist who was able to take Martial Arts and show people just how wonderful it really is and what a person man or woman is potentially capable of doing via the medium of film and television.
One more thought; I've met many Martial Artists and several Grand Masters, including Yip Sing, and Ed Parker Jr. I've only known maybe two or three (Martialist) that were arrogant and so full of it their blue eyes were brown. In all, IMO, Martialist are humble people, very confident but humble people. Something tells me that Bruce Lee probably would have humbly rejected the adjective of "the greatest."

 

[Flatlander]

Excellent fargon post MACaver. five stars.

 

[MA-Caver]

Aww shucks! T'aint nuthin'
But thanks... and thanks for the rep points... both of you, whomever you are.
:asian: :asian: :asian: :asian: :asian:

 

[Littledragon]

Aww shucks! T'aint nuthin'
But thanks... and thanks for the rep points... both of you, whomever you are.
:asian: :asian: :asian: :asian: :asian:

One was by me, I learned alot from that post and I thought it was great.

Tarek

 

[Kevin Walker]

I wanted to ask something & see what people thought about this. If Bruce Lee were still alive, do you think he would be the greatest or one of the greatest martial artists around? Also, if he were to compete in professional fights, such as ufc, or any other kind of professional televised mma events? Do you think he would win fights or do you think he would lose?

As far as the USA is concerned, if Bruce Lee were still alive, he would be considered as a pathfinder for popularizing the martial arts, just as Steve Reeves was considered a pathfinder for popularizing bodybuilding.

Yet in Asia, Bruce Lee was considered just another martial art Wing Chun practioner - "Nothing Special" as described by Run Run Shaw, the martial art movie director.

If Bruce Lee competed in professional fights back when he was in his prime, I don't think he would have been any better than any other professional athlete. As Bruce Lee said in an interview, the majority of his most effective techniques, such as finger jabs to the eyes or kicks to the shins & knees or attacks to the throat, would have been eliminated from a professional bout and what good is that?

Today in 2004, if Bruce Lee survived his injury, he would probably be a mentor and a very sought after teacher or be the governor of some state.

 

[Flatlander]

Hey, that's a cool idea. I wonder what kind of politician he would have made? He certainly had the mind for it, and I liked his philosophies. How could the principles of JKD apply to public administration?

 

[Kevin Walker]

Hey, that's a cool idea. I wonder what kind of politician he would have made? He certainly had the mind for it, and I liked his philosophies. How could the principles of JKD apply to public administration?

Besides being an excellent and innovative martial artist, Bruce Lee was a talented actor and earned a B.A. in Philosophy, he had an acute mind and his vocabulary was as potent as his one-inch punch!

The philosophy of his Jeet Kune Do was heavily influenced by Taoism (not Buddhism or Confucianism). So I would guess that as a politician he would use the 'soft sell' method employed by salesmen when trying to pass a bill or make concessions with the State board, as opposed to using an overbearing personality and browbeating political opponents as well as allies into seeing it his way. Try reading Sun Tzu's THE ART OF WAR and apply it to politics and see if it resembles Bruce Lee's philosophy of JKD.

 

[Littledragon]

I don't think it is right to say he would be a politician. He is a martial artist and died a legend we will keep it at that and try not to predict his future if he were still alive.



Tarek

 

[Kevin Walker]

I don't think it is right to say he would be a politician. He is a martial artist and died a legend we will keep it at that and try not to predict his future if he were still alive.



Tarek

And that is true of all 'what if' questions, the bain of any historian.

Yet, generally speaking, since Bruce Lee was both a real actor and a real martial artist, and based on the number of actors or martial artists who have entered politics - such as Congressman Fred Grandy, 'Gofer' of the LOVEBOAT; or Senator Ben Campbell, three time U.S. Judo champion and a coach of the U.S. Olympic Judo team and a chairman of the USJA; then it is a reasonable assumption that a 63 year old Bruce Lee today might, perhaps, maybe, possibly enter politics. But, we will never know. So 'what if' questions remain an incentive for lively debate.

 

[Kevin Walker]

This can't go anywhere productive.

Usually the 'what if' and 'who's the best' questions end up as an infinite regress or as an unsolved paradox. But these type of dead end questions do generate lively debate and discussion, if not a lot of bland hero worship.

 

[Flatlander]

From The Tao of Jeet Kune Do - p. 207

"'The art of government is not to let men grow stale,' then, it is an art of unbalancing. The crucial difference between a totalitarian regime and a free social order is, perhaps, in the methods of unbalancing by which their people are kept active and striving."

This illustrates that Bruce had contemplated governance, and in fact related it to hand to hand combat, as I think the underlying principle of the quote applies to both.

Totalitarian regime - physical dominance.

Free social order - baiting/feinting/carrot dangling.

 

[Kevin Walker]

From The Tao of Jeet Kune Do - p. 207

"'The art of government is not to let men grow stale,' then, it is an art of unbalancing. The crucial difference between a totalitarian regime and a free social order is, perhaps, in the methods of unbalancing by which their people are kept active and striving."

This illustrates that Bruce had contemplated governance, and in fact related it to hand to hand combat, as I think the underlying principle of the quote applies to both.

Totalitarian regime - physical dominance.

Free social order - baiting/feinting/carrot dangling.

Since Bruce Lee earned his B.A. in Philosophy, I'm sure he "had contemplated governance" as any other philosophy major in college; plus Bruce Lee was steeped in the study of Taoism, which, in the Tao Te Ching, also contemplates governance. So, again, "if" Bruce Lee were alive today, it is reasonable to guess that he might possibly have entered politics.

Studying philosophy is just as essential to the Eastern martial arts as studying the fighting techniques. And personally I believe a knowledge of philosophy should be a requirement for testing for rank in all martial arts schools.

 

[OC Kid]

I know a man who trained with Dan Innosanto in his garage before he started his school. We worked out about 6 months ago. (hes very busy) he taught me Bruces One Inch Punch and we had conversations about Bruce.
He told me what Danny is teaching today is far more advanced than what he learned from him in the begininng. thus what Bruce said about constantly changing , improving has come to fruition. What I think is Bruce is a Meijn ( I think that is how it is written) A master , one that only comes around every few 100 years or so. Much like Itosu or Mushashi.
Today I think he art would be simpler to learn, I think it would be devistating to the people who would attack his students. That is if he decided to open up a school again. Remember his last years he was acting not teaching.
But I do think he would develope the arts far beyond what they are today.
But then again maybe he did what He had to do and his job was done and he was called home even at such a early age.