I'm mostly curious Buka about someone saying Joe Lewis took down Ali and mounted him. Curious where that came from as I have not heard it before. Though having had the opportunity to train with Lewis a couple of times way back in the day I could see this happening.
As to Ali vs. Lee. Bruce Lee for all he has done for the martial arts was definitely ahead of his time and helped to create a culture of people training, learning across boundaries, etc. Many of us got into the martial arts because of his movies. However, as a fighter we simply do not know how good he was we can only conjecture because he did not compete. While Ali was the heavyweight boxing champion of the world. A huge man, with great reach and incredibly speed for that size and still revered as the greatest in his sport all these years later. Hard to argue about Ali winning either in the ring or on the street in a fight!
I'm the one who said it, and I remember it. But I think it was sprawl, rather than a mount. It was reported in one of the Boston newspapers the next day, either the Globe, Herald, Traveler or Record American. There was an accompanying photo, too. The photo didn't show much, two guys on the ground, one obviously on top of the other, with a whole gang of people trying to separate them. Apparently, they knew each other a little bit, I don't know how well, maybe they just met once. And Ali, being Ali, started teasing and throwing some jabs at Joe, who was seated. Joe didn't take to teasing, not by anybody. He did a double leg take down and sprawled on top of him. (might have been a mount, but I think it was a sprawl hold down.) I think it was a one or two paragraph piece, probably used for filler.
My guess is it was after an exhibition match, which Ali did a ton of back then. I think he did twenty of them in 72 alone. I mean, it couldn't have been a title fight or it would have had much more publicity. I remember it like it was yesterday, part of it, anyway. And here's why -I was a huge Ali fan. I grew up watching and following boxing with my family. But Ali was the first guy I liked who didn't wear the white hat. Probably because we were all sort of anti-establishment back then, and Ali sure as hell was the champ of anti-establishment everything. But I first trained with Joe Lewis in 1972 and in a couple years he was the guy I looked up to the most. I remember seeing the picture in the paper and laughing out loud at my kitchen table, saying, "Oh Muhammed, what the hell are you doing messing with Joe Lewis?"
My best guess is it was between 1973 and 1978. Ali did that exhibition with Inoki in June of 76 (the most embarrassing night in the history of the fight game IMO) so I'm guessing it might have been that year. I've tried to google it over the years and couldn't find anything either. Which is kind of surprising. But there have been other things I can't find on Google, and they too, involve the fight game. (that's odd to me)
A couple weeks ago I was at a training camp. One of Joe's long time students was there, too. I wish I had thought of asking him about it. He might remember some details. He might not. But I'll be speaking with him again and see what I can dig up. And maybe I can research this myself. I live in Boston....and it was a Boston paper. I don't know how one gets to go through their history, but a friend is the union rep for the Globe and he might be able to point me in the right direction.
And now I
really want to find this because Joe passed away. I want to see that photo and smile just one more time.
