Breaking

[Last Fearner]

Sir love the sating about the apple and you are right Bruce Lee did not know everything and either do I just making converstation and seeing other people opinions.

No problem, Master Stoker! I know you are creating topics for discussion, and I didn't mean for my comment about the Bruce Lee quote to be a jab at you for saying it. I know you were just using it to illustrate a point and get a good dialogue started. I just took issue with Bruce Lee's logic if the reason he might not have preferred board breaking practice was because "boards don't hit back." While the statement is true, I find his rationale to be a very weak argument against board breaking. So, I hope you know I meant no disrespect to you!

Last Fearner

 

[fnorfurfoot]

Is the technique for breaking concrete patio blocks different than with boards. I have found that boards are quite easy but I have never attempted a block before. I understand that they should be dry but is there anything else I should know before attempting it?

 

[Adept]

Additionally, lifting weights in the gym is not necessarily going to improve one's power. A good example, is the little chinese kung fu master than can deliver a devistating blow (unless of course that is a myth? ).

Well, it always comes back down to this, I think: When all else is equal, the bigger guy wins. If that little chinese kung fu master can deliver a devistating blow, imagine how much more devistating it would be if he was 6'4" and 220lbs.

That may be true to some extent. However, IMO delivering force isn't all about muscles. It is about structural alignment, stored energy in the body as the ligaments, tendons, and bones are twisted and unleashed delivering a very powerful force that muscles alone cannot deliver.

To a certain extent. The muscles are the only part of the body that can generate movement, so the more efficient your muscles are, the more efficient your movement will be. To whit, the stronger you are, the more power you will generate. Additionally, of course, is the correct body alignment and positioning.

 

[searcher]

Is the technique for breaking concrete patio blocks different than with boards. I have found that boards are quite easy but I have never attempted a block before. I understand that they should be dry but is there anything else I should know before attempting it?

Condition your hands for a while using a makiwara and get some dit da jow. I trained for quite a while and did a large amount of research before I attempted to break a block. Cover over the block with a towel. This will keep you from cutting your hand on shards. Hit the block square and not with your arm at an angle. If you hit at an angle you run a high risk of breaking your arm. Don't hesitate or you will hurt yourself. Hope these few tips help.

 

[still learning]

Hello, We do break boards and cement tiles for testing. Breaking boards is usually easier.

Boards are softer and flex a little. Cement tile/blocks...no give,solid.

One must try the different materials to under stand this.

Once broke three boards without spacers, (you try this? ...not as easy as one thinks)...This was a part of my test for Shotokan Karate BB many years ago

My Sensi did 5 boards without spacers for his...Aloha

 

[tsdclaflin]

Is the technique for breaking concrete patio blocks different than with boards. I have found that boards are quite easy but I have never attempted a block before. I understand that they should be dry but is there anything else I should know before attempting it?

I fold a wash cloth or lay a hand towel so I don't scrape anything. I prefer palm heel to knuckles and use heel for ax kick.

With a punch/palm heel, aim for the edge of the center instead of "dead center", unlike a board break.

Definitely want the brick to be dry. Spacers make it easier. I have broken three patio blocks without spacers with an ax kick. I bruised my heel but it broke, and it looked cool.

 

[fnorfurfoot]

Thanks for the tips.

 

[searcher]

I have never used an axe kick to break, but I have used a side kick. My foot was sore for a few days the first time. The second it was not to bad. I agree on using the palm heel for a block break, unless you are Mas Oyama and have his "kaarte knuckle." I use No. 2 pencils as spacers and they work very well. I am going for 6 slabs this summer. Eventually I would like to get to 10.

 

[fnorfurfoot]

What is the standard width of a board for breaking? I cut the 1x12s down to 6 inches for the children's classes but how wide should the be for adults?

 

[Kacey]

Breaking is intended to power and precision - the ability to place sufficient power precisely enough to break a solid object. We break two things - boards (#3 common pine, 1 x 12, cut in 12 x 12 pieces) and tiles (concrete roofing tiles, roughly 16 x 16). We do not use spacers - as others have stated, spacers make breaking much easier, so we don't use them.

In TKD (at least the ITF TKD I started in, and the YCTA, my current association) breaking begins at yellow belt; however, children are not allowed to complete hand breaks at all, or foot breaks that might damage growing bones, nor are hand breaks allowed for anyone whose job might be jeapordized by damage to their hands - a friend of mine, for example, is a dentist, and is not allowed to do hand breaks. The number of boards is determined by the student's age, rank, and size.

Breaking occurs in 3 approximate categories: power, technique, and hand. Power breaks are just what they sound like: breaks using techniques such as side kick or back kick, with the intention of breaking as much as possible. When my sahbum tested for his VI Dan, he broke 8 boards with a standing side kick from 1" off the front board - pure power, like Bruce Lee's 1" punch. Technique breaks are generally (but not always) foot breaks, using techniques that are technically much more difficult - like twisting kick - to break smaller numbers of boards, to demonstrate technical proficiency. When I tested for IV Dan, I broke with a head-high twisting kick, less than a foot from my own head - but only 1 board. Foot breaks are generally to boards. Hand breaks are just what they sound like - breaks done with the hand. They are done with either boards (basic) or tiles (advanced).

There are pros and cons - as well as strengths as weaknesses - to both boards and tiles. Boards have a lower tensile strength than tiles, and have a grain, both of which facilitate breaking; tiles, on the other hand, while stronger, are also more brittle. Boards must be struck fairly precisely, and along the grain of the wood; tiles are homogeneous in their structure, and must be struck with sufficient power, but are more brittle than wood.

Breaking is one piece of demonstrating technique and power - but only one piece. It can be a lot of fun, and can build confidence in students and impress observers - but while it does demonstrate competence, it is no more indicative of overall ability than other other isolated facet of a martial art.

 

[searcher]

What is the standard width of a board for breaking? I cut the 1x12s down to 6 inches for the children's classes but how wide should the be for adults?

They should be a 12x12. Most kids can still break these boards with little to no effort.

 

[Grenadier]

Whether a system wants to use breaking or not, really doesn't affect the overall quality of the training. It works either way.

The pros to breaking, include the building of confidence, as well as teaching your students to go through the opponent, and not just stop at the surface. It also forces them, if using a closed hand to break, to keep a tight fist.

In a system that does not utilize breaking, this lesson can still be learned (and just as well), by several methods. One particularly good way is to mount a heavy bag on the wall, and have them hit the bag. If they don't hit with good concentration and focus, and keeping a closed fist, then they're going to quickly learn that they need to make adjustments, since the heavy bag that is solidly mounted, isn't going to be quite so forgiving.

The way I see it, as long as the instructors do what they're supposed to do, and teach fundamentally sound martial arts, then whether or not they utilize breaking isn't so much of an issue. Breaking is simply a tool, and one that can be used to help people in certain circumstances, although there are other tools that can do the job.

 

[zDom]

I like breaking wood. Lotsa fun.

 

[searcher]

I like breaking wood. Lotsa fun.

Better that than breaking wind..

 

[CuongNhuka]

board breaking builds self confidense, tests strength and technique. if done properly

 

[Nomad]

One thing that hasn't been mentioned in this thread so far is the mental aspects of board- or brick-breaking. There is a reason that tamashiwara (trial by wood) must be done in public... it adds a whole new dimension to the breaking process. Now everyone (instructor, classmates, sometimes parents, friends, etc.) is watching you. This adds factors of distraction and EGO into the mix, and marshalling the calm demeanor and focus required for good breaks is much more difficult in these conditions than it is when you're alone in your garage and have less (such as the possibility of looking foolish) at stake.

How you deal with it when a break doesn't work is at least as important as whether or not you actually break the wood or bricks. Breaking bricks is easy... dealing with your ego in the case of success or failure can be a much tougher battle.

 

[exile]

How you deal with it when a break doesn't work is at least as important as whether or not you actually break the wood or bricks. Breaking bricks is easy... dealing with your ego in the case of success or failure can be a much tougher battle.

Well said, Nomad.