Breaking contact if grappled

[Sandstorm]

Guys,

Sorry if it was vauge.

Say you are being tackled. They might be going for your legs or hips. And say they made contact and you are falling with them but he does not yet have a solid hold.

The idea is, once they dive for you and make contact, how to keep them from getting in. And yes, break contact with them.

Eye gouge? Kick them off you. Windpipe grab? Hair grab?

Alot of people are not strong enough to grapple against a fit young man who knows. So they need a strategy to stop the other guy from getting them into a lock and get off the ground.

Thanks,

Deaf

I still suggest the sprawl.

At the end of the day, as has been mentioned by many, you really need to get to some grappling schools and train/learn with experienced grapplers. The experienced grapplers will not leave themselves open to attacks from you when they clinch or go for the takedown, unlike a novice rugby tackle (for example).
All the theories in the world sound good, but application and drilling techs is the best way to see what will and won't work for you. Everyone is different and will respond differently to your defence, be it an eye gouge, elbow strike, whatever.
To keep from going down in the first place, learn the sprawl and learn it well. Then learn the next step as plan B. and so on.

Hope this helps

 

[Aiki Lee]

If you didn't sprawl and are on the ground you are in troubled if they are skilled. It's easy to say go for the eyes or the groin but when you do you are putting your limbs at risk by reaching for these targets and as soon as you do chances are you will be caught in a lock of some sort. You would have to be extremely lucky to have this work.

Cheers
Sam:asian:

Turn as he touches you. If you are in close then these targets are very easy to reach without risking injury to the self. If he is concerned with hurting you he won't be concerned with protecting himself. Sprawling is only one way to avoid being taken down. Certain throws like tomoe nage (the wheel throw) are good ways to avoid being on the wrong end of a fight that is going to the ground. I'd be striking him after he grabbed me. It's quite easy.

 

[Wishbone]

Let's make some assumptions here, chances are you are not going to be tackled by a BJJ black belt in a random street encounter. Second, if it is a street encounter then anything goes. If you are asking if it is Joe Tough Guy with no MA training and tackles you to the ground then how do you get out of it ?

Sounds like there are lots of assumptions being made that the person is going to be trained in some ground fighting art. Chances of that are slim actually. I would suggest taking it from there.


My suggestion would be to use reasonable force. If you feel your life is in danger than use lethal force. You have to make that judgement.

Having the attitude of training against a less skilled opponent is training to fail. You should always presume your adversary will be better than you.

 

[thetruth]

Turn as he touches you. If you are in close then these targets are very easy to reach without risking injury to the self. If he is concerned with hurting you he won't be concerned with protecting himself. Sprawling is only one way to avoid being taken down. Certain throws like tomoe nage (the wheel throw) are good ways to avoid being on the wrong end of a fight that is going to the ground. I'd be striking him after he grabbed me. It's quite easy.

I'd learn to grapple well before trying tomoe nage. For starters you have to assume your partner is relatively upright and pushing for this to work. You clearly have not been taken down by a grappler only by class members. Any half reasonable grappler won't be tackling you like this they will be going after the legs or going after underhooks which will not allow you to do such techniques. Everything sounds easy in theory until you are on the receiving end. By this I mean go to a grappling school or get someone in to yours and try your techniques on an more uncompliant attacker.

Cheers
Sam:asian:

 

[kaizasosei]

I would if it were a real fight or selfdefense situation, knee,punch, pinch, tear and push at vitals with no mercy in almost random order. Plus i for one would either go down relatively softly or land on top of him, chances are. Practically no way for me to go down except if rushed or in bad situation to begin with, falling on my own maybe.
Also against stronger partner in grappling training, i am forced to go down to the ground, but i am fairly resistant to takedowns. Last time i was floored was by a judoka blackbelt level and he could only get me down with a udegarami-kimura standing to drop back....still i fell out of it fairly decently-he sortof bragged that if he hadn't let go it would have been hardcore bad for me, but im quite certain i started to flip in the air anyhow(and land on him)....whatever, aside from that the guy couldnt get me down, and not knowing he being a judoka, i didnt even breakout my real takedowns because i wondered if they be too rough.....-
no such thing in mma, that what is effective is generally permitted... especially when it comes to takedowns and holds..

i did use that move hisaku that time...that move works like a charm, if done right, it's hard to counter-possibly with a pickup and slam, but part of the move is not telegraphing the jump at all and focusing on the neck even choping it like a double clinch, which induces a counteraction,which...and so forth.

j

 

[Aiki Lee]

I'd learn to grapple well before trying tomoe nage. For starters you have to assume your partner is relatively upright and pushing for this to work. You clearly have not been taken down by a grappler only by class members. Any half reasonable grappler won't be tackling you like this they will be going after the legs or going after underhooks which will not allow you to do such techniques. Everything sounds easy in theory until you are on the receiving end. By this I mean go to a grappling school or get someone in to yours and try your techniques on an more uncompliant attacker.

Cheers
Sam:asian:

ummm actually I almost killed a man who was well trained in BJJ when he attacked me, he was not being compliant. Any "half reasonable grappler" should know that it is not efficient to grapple with a person without including strikes into their tactics. Of course Tomoe nage doesn't work as well when the legs are being tackled instead of the hips, in which case sprawling would likely be the best was to go or even a simple aiki piviot if your timing is good enough.

Comments like this: "You clearly have not been taken down by a grappler only by class members." are insulting, so please don't make assumptions about the way I train when you don't know anything about me.

 

[thetruth]

ummm actually I almost killed a man who was well trained in BJJ when he attacked me, he was not being compliant. Any "half reasonable grappler" should know that it is not efficient to grapple with a person without including strikes into their tactics. Of course Tomoe nage doesn't work as well when the legs are being tackled instead of the hips, in which case sprawling would likely be the best was to go or even a simple aiki piviot if your timing is good enough.

Comments like this: "You clearly have not been taken down by a grappler only by class members." are insulting, so please don't make assumptions about the way I train when you don't know anything about me.

I'm just asking but how was your attacker trying to kill you just using bjj. You said he wasn't including strikes. I'm just curious. I'm sure a good neck crank or choke can kill, you hit your head being taken down but how were you almost killed?

I don't like sacrifice throws full stop. Maybe that's just me.

Cheers
Sam:asian:

 

[kaizasosei]

I think he said that HE almost killed the bjj guy..?not certain however,




j

 

[JadecloudAlchemist]

Say you are being tackled. They might be going for your legs or hips. And say they made contact and you are falling with them but he does not yet have a solid hold.

If you are both falling I am assuming he is on top. If he is on top sitting high you can do an Upa

Or one of its varations.

The idea is, once they dive for you and make contact, how to keep them from getting in. And yes, break contact with them.

Sprawl. This is actually a cool drill.

Eye gouge? Kick them off you. Windpipe grab? Hair grab?

You could use a Guillotine or reverse. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNA0hvJXN_0&feature=PlayList&p=B8DDBCB62D2EA623&playnext=1&index=38

Alot of people are not strong enough to grapple against a fit young man who knows. So they need a strategy to stop the other guy from getting them into a lock and get off the ground.

It deals more with leverage than actual strength.

 

[Sandstorm]

Sprawl. This is actually a cool drill.

Lee Johnstone is the head coach of Medway Submissions school. He is a great guy and very well schooled in the ground game. I would urge anyone in the UK to get down and train with him.

Just wanted to throw some props out there. thanks for the links

 

[Aiki Lee]

I'm just asking but how was your attacker trying to kill you just using bjj. You said he wasn't including strikes. I'm just curious. I'm sure a good neck crank or choke can kill, you hit your head being taken down but how were you almost killed?

I don't like sacrifice throws full stop. Maybe that's just me.

Cheers
Sam:asian:

What happened was when I was a senior in high school this kid I knew who was a brown belt in BJJ began to exchange rude comments with me until he flew off the handle and tried to tackle my hips. I had sufficient time to execute the throw because he gave me all of his momentum and so I dropped back, put my foot in his hip and threw him over me. He landed in a wall fell to the ground and barely moved. I thought he was dead for a minute, and thought of litigation crossed my mind and I thought my life was over, but his friends helped him up and wobbled over to class and was fine after about 10 minutes or so.

I'm glad I didn't get expelled for that.

 

[Deaf Smith]

JadecloudAlchemist,

Not bad!

Sprawl. I like the drill. It looks like a good one in case you don't have time to knee him as he comes. Do the sprawl and then roll away as fast as you can.

Guillotine and Reverse Guillotine. Ok, but might be tought for a much lighter person to exeute. Here they make contact but you are not down yet.

Upa looks good to. This is incase you fail and they do get on top of you. Just add a head butt to get his mind off you if you can.

Then once you get them off you, roll away and pop up ASAP.

Remember gang, he might have friends with him!

Thanks,

Deaf

 

[thetruth]

I think he said that HE almost killed the bjj guy..?not certain however,




j

you are correct, my bad

 

[thetruth]

What happened was when I was a senior in high school this kid I knew who was a brown belt in BJJ began to exchange rude comments with me until he flew off the handle and tried to tackle my hips. I had sufficient time to execute the throw because he gave me all of his momentum and so I dropped back, put my foot in his hip and threw him over me. He landed in a wall fell to the ground and barely moved. I thought he was dead for a minute, and thought of litigation crossed my mind and I thought my life was over, but his friends helped him up and wobbled over to class and was fine after about 10 minutes or so.

I'm glad I didn't get expelled for that.

You thought you nearly killed a guy you didn't nearly kill a guy. Props to you for being able to execute a throw he obviously gave you the space and had the momentum. It would have to be a ludicrously telegraphed technique to pull of a tomow nage though which is a risky technique ina crowded environment anyway. Also a bjj takedown done well with an element of surprise can be quite effective even with out the use of strikes

Cheers
Sam:asian:

 

[Uchinanchu]

Well, for those of you who are familiar with Goju Ryu forms, I would have to say one of my favorite applications against an agressive low (leg level) to medium (waist level) grab would have to be some of the applications worked from the very end portion of Sepai kata. Extremely nasty and effective, if you know how to work it.
I especially like the 'bell clap' at the end, where leverage and gravity work against the oppenent, and his own body weight works against him.

 

[Aiki Lee]

You thought you nearly killed a guy you didn't nearly kill a guy. Props to you for being able to execute a throw he obviously gave you the space and had the momentum. It would have to be a ludicrously telegraphed technique to pull of a tomow nage though which is a risky technique ina crowded environment anyway.

He didn't like run at me from across the room or anything he was in my face and just started taking me down. As I was falling my foot ended up in his hip and a threw him as I went back.

Also a bjj takedown done well with an element of surprise can be quite effective even with out the use of strikes

Cheers
Sam:asian:

well yeah, any one can do anything if they are trained well enough. I just think you should add strikes to your take downs because it is like icing on the cake.

and who doesn't like icing?

 

[Woodbutcher]

Sever his/her head with knife hand strike. They generally put up little resistance after this.

 

[chinto]

I am not sure i understand the question.
that said, i would look for the most nasty destructive thing i can do.

Okinawan Karate has grappling in it. so we have some understanding of it, but we are not like say a judoka or a western wrestler or a BJJ type. but i can grantee if my friends are there they will kick any grappler who goes to the grounds head in.. I will tell you that I do not fight for fun, I do not fallow rules, and I will do what I have to to survive.

if you think that a fight for survival is like the UFC, you are mistaken. they are forbiden small joint manipulation and a lot of other things. so, remember there are no rules when its for survival.

the other thing to remember is : If You Fight You May Die! so avoid it if you can!

 

[Cirdan]

Headbutt, bite (REALLY bite, tear his throat out!), crush eyes/testicles/throat.

 

[chav buster]

the best ways to get back to your feet from grappling is to get an under hook and use it stand back up, this is good from the side mount guard and half guard and also from a shoot. from the mount you want to bridge as soon as possible and from just about every other position you want to get to guard or half guard and use the under hook escape. the problem with most grappling arts from a self defence point of veiw is that your trained to stay on the deck which is fine if thats where you want to be and is a very good tactic if the situation calls for it ut most of the time it dosnt.

i spend most of the time im rolling trying to get back to my feet and it works much better for me then trying to sub better grapplers.