Hello everyone,
I posted this in one of the other threads also, I hope that the mods don't mind. This is my first post here and I am hoping that some of you can help me out with some research. I haven't been on one of these types of forums for years, as back then most of the posts were people just bad-mouthing other martial artists. I am hoping to have a better experience here. So that I don't drag out explanation before getting to the question, I'll ask it first and then give explanation. I am trying to put together a list of grappling counters to be used after a takedown has happened. What techniques, if any, have any of you come across that are effective to counter a grappler after a takedown has happened? Most of what I have seen is about sprawling and not be taken down, but I am looking for the best way to beat a grappler without turning it into a "who's better at BJJ" contest.
I have a list of what I've seen so far and would like to add to it. I have been training in various martial arts for 35 years, mostly in more traditional arts. About ten years ago I began training in various "reality based self defense" to fill in the self defense gaps that my traditional arts have. I found Krav Maga about four years ago. I recently got my Black Belt in Krav, and as much as I love it, most of the grappling defense techniques are effective against basic grapplers. I am looking for something that will work even with very experienced grapplers. I know that the easiest response would be to learn to grapple better but, as a stand up fighter, I don't want to rely on having to out grapple an experienced grappler. Plus at my age training full time in BJJ isn't an option anymore. I do have some grappling experience (about a year at Gracies and 10th Planet combined) so I do know the terminology and moves. I am more focusing on hitting them with something they don't expect. Any help is greatly appreciated. Here is what I have collected so far. Three of the four I saw occur during "friendly" Jiu Jitsu matches (not street fights.) The Vunak bite (kina mutay) was taught to me when I trained with Paul and some of his students.
- When a triangle choke was attempted: Before the choke was cinched in the person in the choke bit the inner thigh and then hammered the groin of the grappler and then stood up.
- Off of a double leg (Paul Vunak's Kina Mutay): The person being taken down wraps the grappler in a guard, holds the grappler's head tight, and bites into the grappler's cheek. When the grappler pushes back, you release and stand up.
- Off a side control: Reach in between the legs of the person on top and grab and squeeze the groin to get your opponents hips up, either your opponent lets go or you have a chance to get your legs under and pull to your guard.
- If you are in a person's guard: Sit back, hammer or punch your opponent's groin. Stand up and get away. (Krav move)
Any more added to the list is greatly appreciated. Helpful responses only please. Thank you,
Kab
Trying to answer the OP's question directly as I've been there
I'd start by saying that I've spent most of my life training in traditional arts that have a focus on surviving dangerous situations. These do have some ground work, but it's a fairly limited curriculum
I experimented a lot with an experienced BJJ guy (purple) and found that, whilst I consistently found something to escape with, I didn't have sufficient structure and ability to move on the ground to either cope with a more experienced grappler or provide more "back up plans" if I screwed up
So I've been cross training in BJJ to build a stronger foundation on the ground
In my view some of the techniques that you're quoting above aren't going to get you that far. I'd focus on learning::
- Grip releases: Quite straightforward when you add strikes to the arms, but they do require practice in a resistive environment if wearing a jacket
- Defending lapel chokes and arm bars by positioning yourself correctly (cover your lapel, elbows in etc). You're going to need some defensive positions to buy time for an escape
- Standing when you're caught in closed guard: You'll need to work on your positioning/grips to prevent getting your structure being taken first. Once you've established the standing posture/position you can add strikes (best to hit the inside of the thighs/hips to open the guard), and make sure you learn how to prevent sweeps
- Arching and moving up to escape a back control. You can strike the legs to help release the hooks, but you'll likely need to be defending a choke so they have some limitations. Probably you'll end up being mounted unless you train this a lot
- Knee to elbow mount escape to ankle lock/heel hook. It's a banker
- Arm trap and roll mount escape - followed by the closed guard escapes above
- One or two ways to replace the guard from side control. If you can get your shin or feet into play then you can create some distance for strikes which may allow you to disengage and stand again
- Technical stand ups
My recommendation is to take these, work on the structure with resistance, then add strikes, dirty tricks etc to augment the overall movement
Hope this helps