Board Breaking

[Zepp]

But I do know of someone who loves to do that break, 5 boards balanced with space apart with ridge hand. I saw him win at state with it and several other local tournaments but doesn't always win at those tourny's with it alone. TW

Sorry, but I'm not impressed with that story. Using spacers is the sissy way to break. He didn't break 5 boards, he broke one board 5 times.

 

[TigerWoman]

Ok, first off, strength has very little to do with board breaking. Most the power of a strike is generated by technique. You should know that. Strength helps sure, but breaking boards in the manner I described is all about technique and confidence. If you were doing a speed break (unsupported), then speed would be of more importance as well.

Secondly I don't know when the last woman tested for 3rd dan, but I'd be surprised if there hadn't been one fairly recently. We have a number of female 3rd, and 4th in the WTA. And I think there may be some 5th dans too, or at least there used to be.

So does a woman have to do the same amount of boards/bricks as what a 6'4" guy which weighs double of what she does, for 2nd? Not all boards are equal and not all bricks either. Sure, technique delivers the power to the right spot to break but the strength has to be there behind it, especially when you get into multiple boards/bricks. (also big bones, mass help alot).
I would have rather just trained strength for breaking for my 2nd, alot less to have worry about then a drop spin heel, or jb/sph to multiple targets, iMO. TW

 

[Zepp]

So does a woman have to do the same amount of boards/bricks as what a 6'4" guy which weighs double of what she does, for 2nd? Not all boards are equal and not all bricks either. Sure, technique delivers the power to the right spot to break but the strength has to be there behind it, especially when you get into multiple boards/bricks. (also big bones, mass help alot).

Like I said, I've seen the grandmaster make exceptions where he thought it was necessary. To be honest, I haven't personally seen a woman test for a rank higher than 1st dan yet, so maybe he makes exceptions a lot. (Brick breaks are never required for testing either. Probably because setting them up for a horizontal strike is a bit of a challenge ) I'm a fairly small guy compared to most other guys, and I can manage a couple of four board breaks (five boards with a side kick). Body mass and strength make it easier, but most of the power behind a strike comes from technique. I've been hit by guys bigger than me. Trust me on this.

I would have rather just trained strength for breaking for my 2nd, alot less to have worry about then a drop spin heel, or jb/sph to multiple targets, iMO. TW

Who could blame you? I think requiring someone, of any gender or age, to do the breaks your instructor requires is ridiculous.

 

[bignick]

why do you think it is ridiculous?

 

[Zepp]

why do you think it is ridiculous?

Because I believe that the requirements for board breaks should be the simple, core techniques that are practical for all situations; i.e. punches, knife-hand, side-kick, front kick, roundhouse, etc. Fancy kicks like a jump-spin heel are really cool looking, and could be devastating if you landed them on an opponent, but would you really ever attempt it outside of a TKD sparring match?

 

[bignick]

well i think you have a valid point...i just don't think statements like that should be made without explaining further...

i agree with the point that you need to focus on the simplest, core techniques...especially for real-life situation...but the other side of the coin is...if you can keep your balance and execute a difficult, flashy kick with good power and accuracy...how hard would it be to do a much simpler kick with power and accuracy

 

[Zepp]

i agree with the point that you need to focus on the simplest, core techniques...especially for real-life situation...but the other side of the coin is...if you can keep your balance and execute a difficult, flashy kick with good power and accuracy...how hard would it be to do a much simpler kick with power and accuracy

No argument there. I'm all for practicing such kicks and trying them out against a training partner under the right conditions.

But I stand by my earlier statement. It's ridiculous for an instructor to require such techniques to be used for board breaking.

 

[TigerWoman]

(Brick breaks are never required for testing either. Probably because setting them up for a horizontal strike is a bit of a challenge

Well, actually one brick is not any harder to hold for a horizontal strike- same as 2 or 3 boards. But it does take a strong holder(s) with no give. Same technique, little harder delivering horizontally though than on the blocks.

By doing those other kicks as I have progressed through the ranks, I know that I can do them effectively. With knowing those skills, I have competed successfully with the same breaks and more in alot of tournaments. Because it does give you that confidence. Why study TKD if you can't do the kicks effectively and know for sure what your kick does. Frankly, I think simple side, front and round kicks are pretty easy in comparison. The technical factor of the spinning, kicks with two finger hold, tossed boards, floor sweep can take someone off their feet and probably break the ankle in the process in a fight etc. These kicks show what you can do as a Taekwondo martial artist. Jump spin heel as a speed break shows that you can be fast enough in a real fight. No point in doing TKD, IMO, if you don't believe in its strongest aspects. I don't object that I had to do all the breaks required, because it has made me stronger. Me, a 54 year old woman. So if I can, anybody can, barring adverse physical conditions.

I agree with you on that 5 board spaced ridgehand. That IS why he doesn't win at local (ours) tournaments. But I've done ridgehand 2 boards together and that isn't much either. TW

 

[Zepp]

By doing those other kicks as I have progressed through the ranks, I know that I can do them effectively. With knowing those skills, I have competed successfully with the same breaks and more in alot of tournaments. Because it does give you that confidence. Why study TKD if you can't do the kicks effectively and know for sure what your kick does. Frankly, I think simple side, front and round kicks are pretty easy in comparison. The technical factor of the spinning, kicks with two finger hold, tossed boards, floor sweep can take someone off their feet and probably break the ankle in the process in a fight etc. These kicks show what you can do as a Taekwondo martial artist. Jump spin heel as a speed break shows that you can be fast enough in a real fight. No point in doing TKD, IMO, if you don't believe in its strongest aspects.

Well, to each their own. :asian:

Ok, different subject: How do you set up a board break for a floor sweep? And what kind of floor sweep do you use as a breaking technique? That's one I haven't seen before.

 

[bluespacething]

Ok, different subject: How do you set up a board break for a floor sweep? And what kind of floor sweep do you use as a breaking technique? That's one I haven't seen before.

Well...I have only seen one person ever attempt a floor sweep break. He basically stood the board on the floor and did the sweep. The board went flying...I think he tried 2 or 3 times and it finally did end up cracking the board. Don't think it broke in half though. He was doing a spinny type floor sweep. The kind you see in Street Fighter or something to that effect.

 

[baileywoobaeRK]

I am not in TKD, but in Hwa Rang Do, and we are required to do a breaking test for all of our belts. We start with simple dried boards, then to multiple boards, then to fence toppers, then the final break test is riverrock! I just finished multiple boards and am anxious to try the fence toppers!!

-Farang

 

[TigerWoman]

Bluespacething described it fairly well. The board is on end on the floor (like a leg would be) and you are in the same position as a spin heel, standing. For a right leg sweep, you turn to the back go down on the left knee (in line with the target) and do the spin heel with your right going across close to the floor-toe pointed down. Hits with the heel like a spin heel/hook. The trick is that the whole movement has to be fairly fast to break otherwise you just send it flying. That was in my 1st dan test. That or the other option was the football kick, board sitting on the floor again.

What the heck are fence "toppers"??? And riverrock, is that a slab, I assume? How would it compare to concrete? We just have river stones. Already broken up. TW

 

[Faye]

I'm so jealous! We don't do any sort of board breaking here. I haven't watch the black belt test, maybe they do, but not in the lower belts for sure.

 

[Marginal]

A quick web search turned up this, which looks about right.

E.g. taken from the USTF 9th gup through 1st Dan Black Belt Syllabus (1996).

Breaking

Starts at ---6th Gup (low green belt)---
Men Feet: 1 board
With : front snap kick

Women/juniors Feet: 1 board
With : side piercing kick

---5th Gup (high green belt)---
Men Hands: 1 board
With : downward or inward or outward strike with knife hand.

Men Feet: 2 boards
With : front snap or side piercing or back piercing kick

Women/juniors Feet: 1 board
With turning or back piercing kick

---4th Gup (low blue belt)---
Men Hands: 1 board
With : front punch with the forefist or side strike with the back fist or inward strike with the reverse knife-hand.

Men Feet: 2 boards
With : flying front snap or flying turning kick

Men Feet: 3 boards
With : flying side piercing kick

Women/juniors Hands: 1 board
With : downward strike with knife hand.

Women/juniors Feet: 1 board
With : flying front snap or flying turning kick

Women/juniors Feet: 2 boards
With : flying side piercing kick

---3rd Gup (high blue belt)---

Men Hands: 2 boards
With : downward or inward or outward strike with knife hand.
Men Feet: 2 boards
With : twisting or stepping hook or reverse hook kick

Women/juniors Hands: 1 board
With : downward or inward or outward strike with knife hand.

Women/juniors Feet: 1 board
With : twisting or stepping hook or reverse hook kick

Peewees Feet: 1 board
With : front snap or side piercing kick

---2nd Gup (low red belt)---

Men Hands: 1 suspended board (speed breaking)
With : front punch with the forefist or inward strike with the reverse knife-hand or inward strike with the knife-hand or outward strike with the knife-hand.

Men Feet: 2 boards
With : flying twisting kick.

Men Feet: 3 boards
With : mid-air 180 back piercing kick

Women/juniors Hands: 1 board
With : front punch with the forefist or inward strike with the reverse knife-hand or inward strike with the knife-hand or outward strike with the knife-hand.

Women/juniors Feet: 1 board
With : flying twisting kick.

Women/juniors Feet: 2 boards
With : mid-air 180 back piercing kick

Peewees Hands: 1 board
With : downward strike with the side fist or outward strike with the side fist

Peewees Feet: 1 board
With : flying front snap or flying side piercing kick

---1st Gup (high red belt)---

Men Hands: 2 non-supported boards
With : inward strike with the reverse knife-hand or inward strike with the knife-hand or outward strike with the knife-hand.

Men Feet: 3 boards
With : front snap or turning kick

Men Feet: 4 boards
With : side or back piercing kick

Women/juniors Hands: 1 non-supported board
With : inward strike with the reverse knife-hand or inward strike with the knife-hand or outward strike with the knife-hand.

Women/juniors Feet: 2 boards
With : front snap or turning kick

Women/juniors Feet: 3 boards
With : side or back piercing kick

Peewees Hands: 1 board
With : front strike with the elbow

Peewees Feet: 1 board
With : front snap or turning kick

Peewees Feet: 2 boards
With : Back piercing kick

 

[Anna Bastiaans]

Oh crumb, I've cracked that top board three times, if that was a head it wouldn't be good. But it was a two finger hold so it had no support or resistance either.

No, the next woman breaking does not have to do the knife hand through concrete that I trained for a year for and not without a lot of work and pain.
She only has to break with her forearms 2 boards each and not at the same time, whoopee. No hand technique required in the new requirements.

And as a bone offered to me, (I PROTESTED the change in the requirements btw) I choose either a jumpspin heel bliindfolded, a tornado round kick or a flying side kick-2. Well since my left knee is quite literally worthless jumping, can't twist, can't jump off of, the "best" choice is the tornado round kick since I can land on my good knee and break with the foot of the bad knee/leg, the left. That kick is not without the pain factor.

So, what is wrong with this picture? The next woman breaking (testing 2nd) has small hands so no hand techniques are required for her. Her knees are good, she's ten years younger too. I've done my hand techniques all along, up to the last foot break because of my bad knee. But do I get a hand technique instead-Noooooooooooo! I could break 4 boards doing a hand strike,or elbow strike no problem. I know, this is a definite rant now.
I will shut up. I think about this every day. I am going back to the school Sept. 1st but don't know what to do. This is the where the words, life is unfair, WHY ME comes in... TW

Tigerwoman, I'm with you on this frustrating experience. It is unfair. What I didn't understand is the story about the other girl that had small hands, so no hand techniques were required ?!!! I don't know what are the rules in your school, but in Israel (where I come from) nobody released me from hand techniques (on my 2-nd and 3-rd Dan test), and I'm 1.57m tall and 49 kg. Believe me I'm very small Breaking is all about technique, not weight or size.
Good luck next time you try the test, belive in yourself.
Anna.

 

[Anna Bastiaans]

In our school breaking is required from the blue belt test, one board only. From the first Dan test each time an additional kick is being added (2-nd dan - 2 kicks, 3-rd Dan - 2 kicks + 1 arm technique etc). We are never allowed to choose the techniques. Where more than one technique is done, the breaks must be done fluently, with no "pause" between them.

 

[TigerWoman]

A quick web search turned up this, which looks about right.

E.g. taken from the USTF 9th gup through 1st Dan Black Belt Syllabus (1996).

That was cut from a post in another forum. USTF has the ITF logo founded by Choi, and his bio on the first page so I assume these are ITF suggested breaks.

We don't do turning kick (ball of foot) except when someone can't do round kick on the instep. Nor do we require front although that would be easier or twist which seems to be harder. I notice that they do not have any required round kick, nor jump spin heel--either one hand held or two fingers like we do.

Marginal, since you posted this, what do you do for breaking and what are women in your organization required to do? Is it similar to this? Do you know what black belt breaking requirements are? TW

 

[XxTKDPenguinxX]

Well, I suppose I hould put some of my requirements through the ranks.


Started breaking at purple (maybe low blue in other styles) single hand technique: knife hand, palm heal, or elbow (I know, not a hand, but under same requirements). Breaker's choice. I chose knife hand.

Blue (high blue): Foot single technique; front, round, or side. I chose side.

Brown: combo choices; elbow/side kick or elbow/front kick. I chose elbow/side kick.

Red: combo w/ no choices (red belts must perform all breaks before advancing to black/red belt); palm stike/round kick (face level) and elbow/jump side kick (face level).

Red/black: combo choices; back elbow/jump front kick (face level), punch/step reverse side kick (waist level), round kick/reverse side kick, or back elbow, jump side kick over one obstacle. I chose th last one, but my obstacle was my instructor who just bent over to touch his toes so his was waist level with me).

1st Dan: I don't know yet... I'll find out by October when I mid-term test towards 2nd Dan. :idunno:

 

[Marginal]

That was cut from a post in another forum. USTF has the ITF logo founded by Choi, and his bio on the first page so I assume these are ITF suggested breaks.

Potentially. USTF was essentially the US arm of the ITF (as I understand it) until GM Sereff broke ties shortly after Gen Choi's death. How true it holds for ITF requirements in general I don't know.

We don't do turning kick (ball of foot) except when someone can't do round kick on the instep. Nor do we require front although that would be easier or twist which seems to be harder. I notice that they do not have any required round kick, nor jump spin heel--either one hand held or two fingers like we do.

Might be a difference in terminology getting in the way. Turning kicks are otherwise known of as round kicks. We don't use the instep on breaks. (It's regarded as a sparring kick, and it's considered a secondary tool to the ball rather than a seperate technique regardless.) Spin jump heel, there's no kick by that name in the USTF terminology so I'm not sure if it's simply not present or if it's just known by another name.

Marginal, since you posted this, what do you do for breaking and what are women in your organization required to do? Is it similar to this? Do you know what black belt breaking requirements are? TW

For the USTF specifically, the breaking requirements for 1st dan are:

Men: (hands)
2 tiles with a choice of one of the following, front punch with the forefist, side strike with the backfist, or inward strike with the reverse knife-hand.
Of they can elect to go for 3 tiles with a downward strike with the knife-hand.
(feet)
2 boards flying twisting kick, if they up to 3, the choices are flying front snap kick, flying turning kick, flying 360 back piercing kick, or 4 boards with a flying side piercing kick, or a mid-air 180 back piercing kick.
(Suspended)
1 suspended board with any standing kick, or 2 suspended boards using either a flying twin foot front snap kick or a flying twin foot side piercing kick.

Women's requirements are the same as the junior requirements. (Women can elect to perform the male breaks if they would like to do those instead)
(hands)
2 boards with a front punch with the forefist, outward strike with the knife-hand, inward strike with reverse knife-hand. Or, one tile with a downward strike with the knife-hand.
For the power foot breaks, just subtract one board from each of the male requirements I listed above. For the suspended technique, it's 1 board regardless of the chosen technique as listed above.

http://www.minneapolistkd.org/test_require_choose.html has a broader testing requirement listing. (Though It looks limited to the color belt ranks.)

 

[TigerWoman]

Marginal, thanks for the reply.
I guess since you posted USTF requirements and also a school in Minneapolis instead of your own in Colorado, then your school must be ITF as well? You said earlier they "look about right". You didn't say how YOUR school compares and your school's requirements or are you WTF?

They look to me to have a little more emphasis on hand technique then foot where we have the opposite. Jump spin heel is just that --you jump, spin 360° and hit head level with your heel while you are in the air. First for high red-a one hand hold and then for rec. bb, 2 finger hold. Also called jump spin hook, maybe you know it by that terminology. Maybe you know what "suspended" commonly means? Is it one hand hold, two fingers, or tossed up or dropped? Also, we women don't do punch because all of us have gotten deformed knuckles because of it.

Just a side note, I have a friend who moved to Colorado Springs and is attending a WTF school there, just completed her 1st dan. She was our student, but finished up there. She said she wow'ed them even so, because she did alot more than they asked.

Anyway interested in what your school's requirements are...TW