Board breaking

[Cirdan]

But then how will you defend yourself when attacked by a tree?

All trees are my friends because I did not break any boards

 

[Argus]

I enjoy wood working. I guess I had better be careful!

 

[Cirdan]

I enjoy wood working. I guess I had better be careful!

Better look out for this guy...

 

[rframe]

Broke a few boards in a style I studied many years ago. Never understood the point other than the "oh wow, he broke a board!" factor for some kids at a demo.

To each his own, do what you enjoy and all that... but reading the justification logic posted above my BS meter is pretty high.

I dont think it teaches people anything other than the fact that boards are easy to break.

 

[david7510]

But then how will you defend yourself when attacked by a tree?

Well that was kinda funny but let me put things to every one like this. If I can break 6, 7, 8 boards with out spacers and 8, 9 or 10 with spacers and my opponent who has been "practicing" an art for 10, 20 30 years can not, but is full of false self-confidence, I would have to say that I would be able to inflict more damage then he/she would be able to inflict on me. I know the extent of my power and the damage I can do. Another point, I have some of my students who are extremely fast and have been practicing one or more arts for years come at me as fast as they can with a hail of strikes what ever they want and I defend one handed. Now again if my opponent never attempts any thing like this then again I would have to think I would have the upper hand.

I have seen high level black belts get destroyed by lower ranked color belts or on the streets by people that know nothing of the martial arts.

My point, you should try to develop your skills in every area you possibly can. Oh and when I break I do not use the 12"x6"x1" ( I could probably do 15 of those right now) I use the 12"x12"x1" and we buy them at lowes 6' long and cut them ourselves.

Another point to consider, I do not know how many boards would equal a rib but I think you would also have to consider that the boards are supported by concrete block and don't have a lot of room to move where as the human body can move a lot when hit so being able to strike not the target but through the target is a concept that each student should learn.

Oh just realized that it shows me as a white belt, not a white belt. I have 3 different black belts of different degrees in 3 arts and own my own school. White belt, now that's funny I don't care who you are, as Larry the cable guy would say.

 

[wab25]

Well that was kinda funny but let me put things to every one like this. If I can break 6, 7, 8 boards with out spacers and 8, 9 or 10 with spacers and my opponent who has been "practicing" an art for 10, 20 30 years can not, but is full of false self-confidence, I would have to say that I would be able to inflict more damage then he/she would be able to inflict on me.

Sure... if your opponent stays still, allows you to measure your strike and position him correctly and then stays still some more, waiting for the impact. If he decides to move however, and defend himself... he may be able to sting you like a bee while he flutters around... who knows... who is your opponent?

I might think that someone who spends his time learning to break 10 boards with one strike may be the one full of false confidence. Breaking static, un-moving, non defending boards that do not punch back is very different than breaking a person who is intent on doing you harm.

Then again, I have never broken a board... so what do I know?

 

[david7510]

Sure... if your opponent stays still, allows you to measure your strike and position him correctly and then stays still some more, waiting for the impact. If he decides to move however, and defend himself... he may be able to sting you like a bee while he flutters around... who knows... who is your opponent?

I might think that someone who spends his time learning to break 10 boards with one strike may be the one full of false confidence. Breaking static, un-moving, non defending boards that do not punch back is very different than breaking a person who is intent on doing you harm.

Then again, I have never broken a board... so what do I know?

Well did you not read where I talked about the body moving, did you not understand the point I made about going through your target/opponent. I am very much aware of the other person moving. A little bit of my background. Competed in about 50 tournaments and took state champ in 3 categories one of which was sparring, so I kinda doubt that my level of self confidence is false, but having said that I never just assume I can take any one out instead I look at my opponent as at least as good if not better then me so that I do not get stupid. But thank you for trying to enlighten me I do sincerely appreciate it.

Let me try and put it another way, practice punching or kicking air only or practicing going through a static object you decide what would be better and as far as sparring goes how many out there hit your partner as hard and as fast and going through doing as much damage as you can. I don't know I have not gone to every school and seen every student spar but I would tend to think the answer is zero.

And please do not try and insult me or any one else just because they have a different opinion then you. I did not mean to insult any one just tried to express my point of view with out writing a book. Just give some food for thought.

 

[wab25]

First, no offense was intended... Sorry, if you were offended.

Well did you not read where I talked about the body moving, did you not understand the point I made about going through your target/opponent.

I should have been more specific. If the opponent is using angles or slipping your punches... then punching through the target won't help. If the target moved off the line, in such a way that you cannot track it... then it will not matter if you punch to the target or through the target.

Let me try and put it another way, practice punching or kicking air only or practicing going through a static object you decide what would be better and as far as sparring goes

As far as sparring goes, work on a heavy bag would be better prep for sparring than breaking boards. There are lots of ways to train striking, besides breaking boards. Some of them (heavy bag and pad work with a partner) are much better prep for sparring or a live opponent than board breaking. (boxers find shadow boxing to be effective when used correctly...)

Further, the ability to break boards, has very little to do with sparring or fighting a live opponent. (If point sparring... even less) I have not broken boards yet. So, I am not yet sure what that brings to the table. I am sure though, that breaking boards is not the best way to train for sparring or for a live opponent. At some point, I may break a few boards, if that is called for in my training. (training shotokan now so I am sure it will) Once I break a few, if I can figure out what it does bring... I will be sure to come back and post.

 

[david7510]

First, no offense was intended... Sorry, if you were offended.

I should have been more specific. If the opponent is using angles or slipping your punches... then punching through the target won't help. If the target moved off the line, in such a way that you cannot track it... then it will not matter if you punch to the target or through the target.

As far as sparring goes, work on a heavy bag would be better prep for sparring than breaking boards. There are lots of ways to train striking, besides breaking boards. Some of them (heavy bag and pad work with a partner) are much better prep for sparring or a live opponent than board breaking. (boxers find shadow boxing to be effective when used correctly...)

Further, the ability to break boards, has very little to do with sparring or fighting a live opponent. (If point sparring... even less) I have not broken boards yet. So, I am not yet sure what that brings to the table. I am sure though, that breaking boards is not the best way to train for sparring or for a live opponent. At some point, I may break a few boards, if that is called for in my training. (training shotokan now so I am sure it will) Once I break a few, if I can figure out what it does bring... I will be sure to come back and post.

Well I wish well in your training, unfortunately you just don't seem to be able to grasp what I have said. I never said breaking was any form of training for fighting. I am not sure where you even came up with that, but at least this time you did not directly try to insult me just indirectly. I have fought many matches like I said earlier and I also understand the heavy bag and shadow boxing. But since you brought up boxing it should be noted that boxers do actually get out in the ring and go fairly hard at it against each other in practicing for fights which also helps tremendously with staminia where as most martial arts practitioners do not, which is a shame and most train for competition. But this is my last post on the subject, I am not one for beating my head against the wall. Sorry I could not put it in plain enough language for you to be able to understand what I said.

 

[Dirty Dog]

Another point to consider, I do not know how many boards would equal a rib but I think you would also have to consider that the boards are supported by concrete block and don't have a lot of room to move where as the human body can move a lot when hit so being able to strike not the target but through the target is a concept that each student should learn.

So do speed breaks...

 

[david7510]

So do speed breaks...

Dirty Dog makes a great point that I did not think about. Yes the opponent moves constantly but if you practice and take 2 hours to do a break people don't stand still that long but if you practice walking up and doing the break fast and immediately then you will be able to do that in a fight. Thanks Mr. Dirty Dog.

 

[skribs]

Board breaking is like many of the kung fu tricks. Awsome for show, very little to do with true martial ability. I do think it is great for the confidence of beginners though.

It shows that you know the technique well enough to:

• Strike accurately (hit the board at a point it will break, at the right distance to do so with power)
• Strike correctly (i.e. a side kick with the heel or blade of the foot instead of the toes)
• Strike with power (enough power to break the board, and the proper follow-through to ensure it gets done)

If you use the board breaking as a way to assess mastery of a technique, it's a good tool. If you use board breaking to assess the overall martial arts capability of a student, it's a terrible tool.

Both Taekwondo dojangs I've gone to have had board breaking as part of the test. We've also had forms, sparring, and other drills or exercises involved as well. Board breaking is a great way to assess technique, even if doesn't demonstrate total martial ability.

As an analogy, I used to play a lot of MMORPGs. Most players in those games have a damage meter, and people like to see how much damage they did, especially if they "top" the meters. Now, some players thought they were good because they topped the meters, even though they were often attacking the wrong enemy, getting hit by avoidable attacks, or failing to use the correct abilities to counter what the enemy is doing. So, while a damage meter can be used to tell who is slacking on damage, it can also be used by someone to say "I'm the best ever because look at my numbers", when clearly they aren't following suit.

Board breaking is similar. It's a good tool if used correctly, to assess what it assesses. It's not a good tool to assess anything more.

 

[wab25]

Now I am confused...

I never said breaking was any form of training for fighting.

Followed by...

if you practice walking up and doing the break fast and immediately then you will be able to do that in a fight.

 

[david7510]

It shows that you know the technique well enough to:

• Strike accurately (hit the board at a point it will break, at the right distance to do so with power)
• Strike correctly (i.e. a side kick with the heel or blade of the foot instead of the toes)
• Strike with power (enough power to break the board, and the proper follow-through to ensure it gets done)

If you use the board breaking as a way to assess mastery of a technique, it's a good tool. If you use board breaking to assess the overall martial arts capability of a student, it's a terrible tool.

Both Taekwondo dojangs I've gone to have had board breaking as part of the test. We've also had forms, sparring, and other drills or exercises involved as well. Board breaking is a great way to assess technique, even if doesn't demonstrate total martial ability.

As an analogy, I used to play a lot of MMORPGs. Most players in those games have a damage meter, and people like to see how much damage they did, especially if they "top" the meters. Now, some players thought they were good because they topped the meters, even though they were often attacking the wrong enemy, getting hit by avoidable attacks, or failing to use the correct abilities to counter what the enemy is doing. So, while a damage meter can be used to tell who is slacking on damage, it can also be used by someone to say "I'm the best ever because look at my numbers", when clearly they aren't following suit.

Board breaking is similar. It's a good tool if used correctly, to assess what it assesses. It's not a good tool to assess anything more.

Another great point! I do not use breaking when I test my students. I only use it to help teach the proper striking technique (going through the target and not stopping at the surface) it never fails to amaze me how many people do not go through the target and it does give that confidence when you know not just believe but know you can do damage with your strikes.

 

[Midnight-shadow]

I can definitely see the purpose of breaking, although my style doesn't practice breaking boards except for occasional seminars (once or twice a year). To me, board breaking is very much like forms/kata training. We could debate until the cows come home its effectiveness compared to other training methods, but I don't see breaking boards as inherently a bad thing. If you break boards as part of your training it's not going to make you a worse martial artist, unless of course you do nothing but breaking boards. But then of course you could say the exact same thing about a lot of training methods, like bag work or static drills. All of those practices have their place in the training hall as long as they are done in moderation and you understand the limitations of the training.

 

[david7510]

I can definitely see the purpose of breaking, although my style doesn't practice breaking boards except for occasional seminars (once or twice a year). To me, board breaking is very much like forms/kata training. We could debate until the cows come home its effectiveness compared to other training methods, but I don't see breaking boards as inherently a bad thing. If you break boards as part of your training it's not going to make you a worse martial artist, unless of course you do nothing but breaking boards. But then of course you could say the exact same thing about a lot of training methods, like bag work or static drills. All of those practices have their place in the training hall as long as they are done in moderation and you understand the limitations of the training.

Thank you Midnight Shadow, question is a midnight shadow darker then a 2 am shadow? So now that I got this started let me ask all the learned individuals out there a few other questions. How do you feel about the timed testing where you either test every 2 or 3 months and no matter how some one does they pass or the places that say you can't test for 6 months for a color belt or the number of years for the degree of black you are going for, 3 years for a 3rd degree, 5 for a 5th and so on. I personally feel that the student must come to the instructor and let them know that they think they are ready but if the instructor dose not agree then they can not test until they have fixed what ever is wrong or missing. That way a student that does not know the material does not get promoted and some one that does have it down is not held back. That is how I do it and I work with my students individually as much as I can. Just want the opinions of of others no matter what your rank. And thank you all for your input/

 

[Buka]

Welcome to MartialTalk, David. Hope you enjoy it here.

As for the "white belt" designation under your avatar, that only denotes how many posts you've put up, it has nothing to do with actual rank.

As I read this thread today, I'm sure nobody was trying to insult you or anyone else. I think a forum format just takes some getting used to.

 

[david7510]

Welcome to MartialTalk, David. Hope you enjoy it here.

As for the "white belt" designation under your avatar, that only denotes how many posts you've put up, it has nothing to do with actual rank.

As I read this thread today, I'm sure nobody was trying to insult you or anyone else. I think a forum format just takes some getting used to.

 

[david7510]

Thank you Buka, yeah I had no idea about the belt thing, I just didn't want people to think I was newbie in the arts that was spouting off drivel. It might still be drivel but.... you know.

I have to say that I am actually surprised that I even got a response as this seemed to be an old area and I am actually kinda enjoying this, I really do appreciate different points of view but as far as being insulted it did come off that way to me. But then again as treebread and the ents said you are not orcks. So I don't take things to seriously on these things, so much is lost when not face to face. And I know that the vast majority of martial artist are very polite and respectful. Comes with the training and the knowledge of ones abilities. Must get ready for class but I will read any answers to my question earlier and want to say Merry Christmas to every one.

 

[Buka]

Thank you Buka, yeah I had no idea about the belt thing, I just didn't want people to think I was newbie in the arts that was spouting off drivel. It might still be drivel but.... you know.

I have to say that I am actually surprised that I even got a response as this seemed to be an old area and I am actually kinda enjoying this, I really do appreciate different points of view but as far as being insulted it did come off that way to me. But then again as treebread and the ents said you are not orcks. So I don't take things to seriously on these things, so much is lost when not face to face. And I know that the vast majority of martial artist are very polite and respectful. Comes with the training and the knowledge of ones abilities. Must get ready for class but I will read any answers to my question earlier and want to say Merry Christmas to every one.

Merry Christmas back atcha, brother.