Blood Flow Restriction/ Kātsu Training

[Gyakuto]

I’ve been hearing a lot about BFR training, improving strength, muscle mass gain, increased microvascularistion and indeed general health. I was wondering if anyone’s tried it?

 

[Gyakuto]

Nobody? I’ve ordered my cuffs, anyway…in the interests of exploration.

 

[MetalBoar]

I think it sounds interesting and I look forward to seeing how it works for you.

The first time I heard about it was in an interview explaining how Chris Hemsworth got huge for the first Thor movie. Since they didn't mention all the obvious PED usage, I assumed that this was some BS to try to cover for the fact that there was no way he was natty and for some reason felt compelled to lie about it. That sort of put me off looking into it, but I've lately read some studies that make it sound like it might have some useful applications. I hope you'll let us know about your experience.

 

[Gyakuto]

Do you think it’ll make me look like Chris Hemsworth?

I’m more worried about applying the bands…I think I’ll feel a bit self-conscious putting them on in the middle of the gym!

 

[MetalBoar]

Do you think it’ll make me look like Chris Hemsworth?

Probably only if you combine it with tren and T.

I’m more worried about applying the bands…I think I’ll feel a bit self-conscious putting them on in the middle of the gym!

Yeah, I've developed a serious disklike of public gyms. It's part of why I owned/operated my own gym before the pandemic and now have a large home gym for my own use. Still, from what I've seen, putting on some BFR bands is nothing to be self conscious about in comparison to the influencer shenanigans that go on. Just make sure you're not in someone else's video before you start!

 

[_Simon_]

Yyyyyyyep, I've tried it haha. Also for the exploration, and it was good fun! Aaaaaand brutal . It reeeally tests you haha. The buildup and pump you get is insane, but there is alot of research backing it. I stopped just of how intense it was to do on a continuous basis. I think I did it mainly for biceps/triceps, strapping wrist wraps tightly enough between the shoulder and biceps, but I remember I did give it a go for quads

I trawled through my old screenshots and found this, must have been what I did years ago

 

[Gyakuto]

Probably only if you combine it with tren and T.



Yeah, I've developed a serious disklike of public gyms. It's part of why I owned/operated my own gym before the pandemic and now have a large home gym for my own use. Still, from what I've seen, putting on some BFR bands is nothing to be self conscious about in comparison to the influencer shenanigans that go on. Just make sure you're not in someone else's video before you start!

Now I go to a proper gym, I’ve noticed a person videoing her workouts. It’s a little annoying being in her shot (Interpol are looking for me) but I find dropping my shorts makes her, stop and adjust her camera positioning.

It’s putting the bands on the thighs that’ll be embarrassing as they have to be high up on the leg and that can reveal a slightly obscene midline bulge. I’ll find a way…

 

[Gyakuto]

Yyyyyyyep, I've tried it haha. Also for the exploration, and it was good fun! Aaaaaand brutal . It reeeally tests you haha. The buildup and pump you get is insane, but there is alot of research backing it. I stopped just of how intense it was to do on a continuous basis. I think I did it mainly for biceps/triceps, strapping wrist wraps tightly enough between the shoulder and biceps, but I remember I did give it a go for quads

I trawled through my old screenshots and found this, must have been what I did years ago

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Is that you _Simon_

So it’s harder work? One of the reasons I want to try it is that my leg pressing is getting heavy and i’m conscious of the stress it’s putting on my knees and I do my best to protect my knees. I want to reduce mechanical stress that by using the bands. I’ll only try it once a week.

 

[MetalBoar]

Is that you _Simon_

So it’s harder work? One of the reasons I want to try it is that my leg pressing is getting heavy and i’m conscious of the stress it’s putting on my knees and I do my best to protect my knees. I want to reduce mechanical stress that by using the bands. I’ll only try it once a week.

If you're worried about stress on the knees slow your reps down and never let the weights out of your complete control during either phase of the repetition. If you go slow enough you can leg press obscene amounts of weight without meaningful wear and tear on the knees and get a more efficient workout in the bargain.

 

[Gyakuto]

If you're worried about stress on the knees slow your reps down and never let the weights out of your complete control during either phase of the repetition. If you go slow enough you can leg press obscene amounts of weight without meaningful wear and tear on the knees and get a more efficient workout in the bargain.

Yes I do tend to do my reps slowly and in a controlled manner, but there’s still a much greater load being applied to the 105cm2 of the knee cartilage than for which it was design. If BFR is a possible option to ameliorate my possibly irrational fear then I’ll give it a go.

 

[_Simon_]

Is that you _Simon_

So it’s harder work? One of the reasons I want to try it is that my leg pressing is getting heavy and i’m conscious of the stress it’s putting on my knees and I do my best to protect my knees. I want to reduce mechanical stress that by using the bands. I’ll only try it once a week.

Hahaha nah not me, but have been weight training a long time now

Yyyeah it's definitely harder, in a metabolic stress sort of way (metabolic by-products, lactic acid etc). Yeah that's fair enough, give it a go and see what you think!

Another option is drop sets, myoreps, or even rest-pause sets, all can be done with lighter loads but the extra volume and less rest really creates a cool synergistic effect, although very fatiguing and taxing. I still do myreps and rest-pause style nowadays, but very judiciously. In fact I THINK they found that drop sets are just as effective as blood flow restriction training (in terms of hypertrophy). Can't remember where the study was... possibly by Schoenfeld.. have had a look but can't find it.. (I know you love studies )

Myoreps by Borge Fagerli is worth looking into too which basically mimics blood flow restriction training. Uses much lighter loads (up to 25 rep sets) but is super effective, more info here: myo-reps-in-english

It's alot of fun, and you basically don't do full range of motion, but cut out the last 10% or so to keep constant tension. There's more to it, but it's good fun, crazy effective and very time efficient too

 

[Gyakuto]

It all sounds so complicated

What attracts me to BFR is the systemic effects is appears to have not only on other muscles but neovascularistion of cardiac tissue, distal areas of limbs etc. It seems a little too good to be true…which sets of warning bells in my ears !

 

[_Simon_]

It all sounds so complicated

What attracts me to BFR is the systemic effects is appears to have not only on other muscles but neovascularistion of cardiac tissue, distal areas of limbs etc. It seems a little too good to be true…which sets of warning bells in my ears !

Yeah worth giving it a go, cool I'd never heard of these extra benefits!

 

[Bill Mattocks]

I’ve been hearing a lot about BFR training, improving strength, muscle mass gain, increased microvascularistion and indeed general health. I was wondering if anyone’s tried it?

I have never heard of it until now. Don't think it would be something I'm interested in.

 

[O'Malley]

Now I go to a proper gym, I’ve noticed a person videoing her workouts. It’s a little annoying being in her shot (Interpol are looking for me) but I find dropping my shorts makes her, stop and adjust her camera positioning.

It’s putting the bands on the thighs that’ll be embarrassing as they have to be high up on the leg and that can reveal a slightly obscene midline bulge. I’ll find a way…

The bulge thing is also the reason I don't go to public gyms anymore, but I suspect it could get worse with blood flow restriction.

 

[Gyakuto]

I have never heard of it until now. Don't think it would be something I'm interested in.

Interestingly, the cytokines and other factors released during BFR training increases microvascular growth in the periphery and in cardiac muscle (both are issues in diabetes and indeed ageing), brain and in other organs via the increase in release of vascular endothelial growth factor. BFR training improves blood sugar handling too, so it sounds like optimal exercise for diabetes/heart disease.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Interestingly, the cytokines and other factors released during BFR training increases microvascular growth in the periphery and in cardiac muscle (both are issues in diabetes and indeed ageing), brain and in other organs via the increase in release of vascular endothelial growth factor. BFR training improves blood sugar handling too, so it sounds like optimal exercise for diabetes/heart disease.

Yeah, perhaps. It still sounds a lot like a **** ring but around your arm.

 

[O'Malley]

Yeah, perhaps. It still sounds a lot like a **** ring but around your arm.

It's for the bulge.

 

[Gyakuto]

Yeah, perhaps. It still sounds a lot like a **** ring but around your arm.

I have idea to what you are referring

 

[MetalBoar]

Yes I do tend to do my reps slowly and in a controlled manner, but there’s still a much greater load being applied to the 105cm2 of the knee cartilage than for which it was design. If BFR is a possible option to ameliorate my possibly irrational fear then I’ll give it a go.

I feel I can safely say that utilizing a truly slow protocol, with control, will apply less force to the cartilage of the knee than many common ballistic movements such as running or jumping, which the knee obviously evolved to accommodate. I can't speak knowledgeably about the MA that you practice, but I from my experience almost every MA that I've participated in had drills and/or movements inherent to the art that put far more stress on my knees than leg pressing even 800-900 lbs. on the leg press that I own, which would be in the neighborhood of 1800 lbs. on a MedX leg press. Considering the design flaws of many leg press machines, I'd be more concerned about the stresses placed on the low back than on the knee.

Think about it this way. You can probably push a large car with almost no risk of injury if you load up very slowly, but if you throw yourself at the car you can pretty easily tweak something. No one seems to worry about plyometrics or other high impact, ballistic movements, but many people freak out when you suggest lifting something heavy. Those ballistic exercises are like throwing yourself at the back of your car to push it out of the road where a slow resistance training protocol is more like slowly exerting force on the car until it moves, except a lot safer.

In my experience, working with a lot of people in their 60's, 70's, and even 80's, over the course of many years, I've seen nothing but improvement in knee pain and stability for my clients, some of whom progressed to leg pressing many multiples of their body weight.

Also, when I say slow movement I mean slow movement. I implement a slow motion, 10/10 protocol (10 seconds for each phase of the repetition), and even slower, more controlled, turn arounds with almost zero acceleration.

Sorry if I come off as pushy on the topic but I really feel like people are afraid of heavy lifting when it's one of the safest and best things for both the structural integrity of the joints and overall health. As Simon has accurately pointed out, there are other methodologies for resistance training that will provide similar benefit with less weight, which some people might find preferable, but I personally believe that fewer reps with higher resistance results in similar to superior gains with less over all wear and tear. Regardless, and despite my biases, I think that pretty much any well considered resistance training program is going to be extremely beneficial for health and functional ability and we should all do what we find most approachable and that we can stick with.