Bjj

[firerex]

i hate how much BJJ is discredited now because of MMA, i have nothing against the MMA but seriously BJJ is an art, i have too many people coming into my academy saying oh i was looking for MMA not BJJ. Gr it's so aggrevating.

 

[MJS]

i hate how much BJJ is discredited now because of MMA, i have nothing against the MMA but seriously BJJ is an art, i have too many people coming into my academy saying oh i was looking for MMA not BJJ. Gr it's so aggrevating.

The following is just my opinion. BJJ, just like every other martial art of its time, was the flavor of the week, when the UFC first started, back in 1993. Everyone ran out and wanted to learn this art that was beating everyone in the cage. If you look at the early UFC days, that is exactly what was happening.

Now, fastforward to present day. We see fighters who not only train ground, but also kicking and punching. BJJ, much like the fighters that it was beating back in the day, was also 1 dimensional. Only difference is, is that it was the more superior 1 dimensional art. Today, the fighters have realized that the once superior art, can be beat, and its being done. Gracie and Hughes....what happened? Gracie was still 1 dimensional and was beat.

Now, don't mistake my post for saying that I hate BJJ. I dont hate BJJ, in fact I enjoy rolling. However, I'm not so blind to the fact that its not the 'best' like it was billed years ago.

For the people coming in today, they're most likely looking for the package that has everything, ie: punching, kicking, clinch, ground. So rather than do BJJ at one school, muay thai at the other, etc., they're looking for a school that offers what they're looking for.

I wouldn't take it personally.

 

[firerex]

i'm not saying it's the best, personally im a tae kwon do guy, but i don't think bjj should be "tossed out the door" so to speak by people just because it's not MMA, i also dont think MMA is truely a martial art... lets look at it for a minute, mixed MARTIAL ART, ok so lets break it down Martial and Art, i see the martial=combat side, so where is there art in MMA... theres no art, theres no flow or anything its more of a backyard wrestle than a martial art, no offense to wrestlers but its more of a sport than a martial art

 

[MJS]

i'm not saying it's the best, personally im a tae kwon do guy, but i don't think bjj should be "tossed out the door" so to speak by people just because it's not MMA, i also dont think MMA is truely a martial art... lets look at it for a minute, mixed MARTIAL ART, ok so lets break it down Martial and Art, i see the martial=combat side, so where is there art in MMA... theres no art, theres no flow or anything its more of a backyard wrestle than a martial art, no offense to wrestlers but its more of a sport than a martial art

Likewise, I didn't say it should be thrown out the door either, as noted in my post.

I dont know what exactly it is, that the folks in your area are looking for. IMO, thats the first step...to establish what it is they want out of their training. As I said, BJJ offers excellent ground work. Perhaps the students are looking for 1 place that will give them the chance to train stand up striking and kicking as well as the ground game. Again, I dont know.

BJJ is but one part of the fight game. If a fighter really wants to do well, he's going to need to add the other parts in as well.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

where is there art in MMA... theres no art, theres no flow or anything its more of a backyard wrestle than a martial art, no offense to wrestlers but its more of a sport than a martial art

Well, if you're training in MMA for competition, then it is a sport. Just like judo, sambo, tae kwon do, kendo, muay thai, etc, if you train in those for competition.

It doesn't mean that MMA (and judo, sambo, tae kwon do, etc) isn't also an art.

My primary training these days is in BJJ, but I also attend MMA classes as the mood strikes me. I'm old enough that I'm probably not ever going to compete in MMA, so I do it just for the sake of the art. Based on that experience, I can say that MMA can be just as much of an art (and has just as much flow) as any other art I've practiced. (That list includes muay thai, judo, bujinkan taijutsu, danzan ryu, and arnis.)

What has your MMA experience been like?

 

[Tez3]

i'm not saying it's the best, personally im a tae kwon do guy, but i don't think bjj should be "tossed out the door" so to speak by people just because it's not MMA, i also dont think MMA is truely a martial art... lets look at it for a minute, mixed MARTIAL ART, ok so lets break it down Martial and Art, i see the martial=combat side, so where is there art in MMA... theres no art, theres no flow or anything its more of a backyard wrestle than a martial art, no offense to wrestlers but its more of a sport than a martial art

It's not mixed martial ART- its mixed martial ARTS, it's what it says on the tin a mixture of arts not one art in itself. A great many other martial arts are also sports these days and MMA is specifically for competition so I guess you have confused things a bit here.

 

[firerex]

well i train in taekwondo, han mu do and bjj, I can find both an art and a combat when taught traditionally but mma taught traditionally as MMA there is no art in it, if i advertise an MMA school and i start off with kata's i doubt many people will stay long because all most of them want to learn is how to fight they don't care about tradition or anything of that sort

 

[MJS]

well i train in taekwondo, han mu do and bjj, I can find both an art and a combat when taught traditionally but mma taught traditionally as MMA there is no art in it, if i advertise an MMA school and i start off with kata's i doubt many people will stay long because all most of them want to learn is how to fight they don't care about tradition or anything of that sort

And I say, to each his own. If someone is interested in learning a traditional art, fine, I can help them. If someone is interested in fighting in the cage, I can help them find a school that would suit their needs.

It seems that you're getting upset with those that come to your school, find out what you teach, and say its not for them. Whats wrong with that? If someone came to the school I train Kenpo at, and was looking for BJJ/MMA, I can point them to 2 people I personally know, who can teach them. I'm not offended that they dont want to train Kenpo. If I can help them find what they want, that is all that matters to me.

If you want to advertise TKD, BJJ, etc., I'd suggest making seperate classes, rather than mix it all together. That way, the guy looking for MMA, would have a place to train.

 

[Andrew Green]

well i train in taekwondo, han mu do and bjj, I can find both an art and a combat when taught traditionally but mma taught traditionally as MMA there is no art in it, if i advertise an MMA school and i start off with kata's i doubt many people will stay long because all most of them want to learn is how to fight they don't care about tradition or anything of that sort

If you started off a BJJ class with Kata you'd get some strange looks as well. Not too mention Muay Thai, Judo, Boxing, Wrestling, fencing, Japanese Jujitsu, Sambo, shootfighting or countless other martial arts.

Perhaps you are letting your preconceptions interfere with your ability to look at MMA objectively?

 

[Tony Dismukes]

well i train in taekwondo, han mu do and bjj, I can find both an art and a combat when taught traditionally but mma taught traditionally as MMA there is no art in it, if i advertise an MMA school and i start off with kata's i doubt many people will stay long because all most of them want to learn is how to fight they don't care about tradition or anything of that sort

What's your definition of an "art" anyway in this context? As Andrew mentions, there are lots and lots of martial arts, including BJJ, that don't involve kata.

 

[Tez3]

well i train in taekwondo, han mu do and bjj, I can find both an art and a combat when taught traditionally but mma taught traditionally as MMA there is no art in it, if i advertise an MMA school and i start off with kata's i doubt many people will stay long because all most of them want to learn is how to fight they don't care about tradition or anything of that sort

I'm sorry I've no idea what you mean by this. We teach MMA, we teach people to use BJJ, juijitsu, MT, karate, Aikido, Judo and anything else we can to enable fighters to compete in the cage/ring. We have separate TSD and SD classes.
Why would you start with katas in an MMA class and you are wrong about MMAers not wanting to know about traditional martial arts, they are as interested in oher martial arts every bit as any TMA person,also in traditions and also weapons. they may not be able or want to do it but on the whole are as open minded.
Andrew there are katas in Judo, the Kime No ones, my instructor has gone through them with me, I haven't learnt them but they are very difficult for me being on the knees lol.

Is this going to be just another bash MMA thread? Please don't let it be!

 

[firerex]

i'm not trying to bash mma here i'm just confused why so many people look down on bjj, and how it seems like bjj is automaticaly MMA when mentioned and when corrcted they make bjj seem worthless

 

[Steve]

I really don't know what to say. I've started about 4 times to respond to this thread, but ultimately, I can't be sure what your intentions are. Are you trying to be funny? Are you trolling? Are you actually serious? I don't know. I thought at first that you were just being funny, but I'm beginning to wonder.

The question that keeps coming to my mind is, who is tossing BJJ out the door? Who's looking down on BJJ? It's such a ridiculous idea that I just can't wrap my mind around it. In the context of MMA, BJJ is like one of the legs on the stool. At the last UFC there were 5 fights that didn't go to a decision on the main card. Of those, 2 were submissions (RNC and Kimura). I read somewhere recently that over 40% of all UFC fights have ended by submission.

Ultimately, though, why do you care what the random guy coming into your school thinks?

 

[firerex]

ok i'm saying at my school the majority of the people coming in are looking for mma, they dont care about bjj, they want a quick fix to a not so easy problem and it just urks me, then when im like no we teach tradition grace brazilian juijitsu they're like oh well nevermind i was looking for something better like mma and its just a slap in the face

 

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

i hate how much BJJ is discredited now because of MMA, i have nothing against the MMA but seriously BJJ is an art, i have too many people coming into my academy saying oh i was looking for MMA not BJJ. Gr it's so aggrevating.

Now you know how us in Japanese or Japanese based Jujutsu and Judo have felt for the last 10-15 years.

 

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

I can't see how you can say MMA is not an art.

I am the first to respond when someone calls it the be all end all especially if they equate it with street combat but it can surely be called an art.

ANy time you do something that expresses yourself, that is art, you might not like someone's art but it is stiull an art.

It might not be as codifeid as WTF TKD, but so what? I think the fact that it veries so much from Gym to gym makes even more of an art, as there is more individualism to it than many arts.

 

[Tez3]

I can't see how you can say MMA is not an art.

I am the first to respond when someone calls it the be all end all especially if they equate it with street combat but it can surely be called an art.

ANy time you do something that expresses yourself, that is art, you might not like someone's art but it is stiull an art.

It might not be as codifeid as WTF TKD, but so what? I think the fact that it veries so much from Gym to gym makes even more of an art, as there is more individualism to it than many arts.

Absolutely! Good post this!

I don't understand how Firex can say BJJ is being discredited because of MMA, if anything it's made it more popular and I've heard arguments saying that BJJ is the best thing out since sliced bread! I've never heard anyone discredit or talk BJJ (or judo for that matter) down, everyone says it's an essential part of MMA. Whether it is or not is open to argument but the feeling around is thats its a good thing to have.
You will always have idiots saying one style is better than another, it's not any styles fault, it's just human nature sometimes.

 

[Steve]

Absolutely! Good post this!

I don't understand how Firex can say BJJ is being discredited because of MMA, if anything it's made it more popular and I've heard arguments saying that BJJ is the best thing out since sliced bread! I've never heard anyone discredit or talk BJJ (or judo for that matter) down, everyone says it's an essential part of MMA. Whether it is or not is open to argument but the feeling around is thats its a good thing to have.
You will always have idiots saying one style is better than another, it's not any styles fault, it's just human nature sometimes.

It's because he's a troll and not a very good one.

There are some great BJJ schools in Austin. Which one do you train at, firerex? I know some guys down in Austin and I'd love to hear if they have the same impressions as you do.

 

[Tez3]

It's because he's a troll and not a very good one.

There are some great BJJ schools in Austin. Which one do you train at, firerex? I know some guys down in Austin and I'd love to hear if they have the same impressions as you do.

Well he can't dislike MMA that much as it says on his profile under systems studied/interested in "BJJ / MMA / Grappling / Wrestling, Tae Kwon Do"

 

[Nolerama]

I think the OP is confused over the idea that MMA people specifically want BJJ.

That's not always the case.

The folks visiting his school looking for MMA are probably looking for striking, ground, and conditioning instruction, with a focus on competitive athleticism; which is what I'd look for in a MMA gym.

Maybe the OP's gym is somehow unable to offer that. Maybe they're just offering BJJ classes, and no striking. I'm pretty sure I won't get the best kicking instruction in a BJJ class.

And he's bummed about that.