BJJ Teacher Roy Dean on Aikido....

[ballen0351]

Again, simple interest. I enjoy seeing how different MAs tackle a problem based on their methodology. Which is why I enjoy watching challenge videos like the one above, especially when it's a high ranking practitioner from an under-represented art like Aikido.

Videos prove nothing. I can post a video tomorrow claiming to be anything and edit the video to have whatever outcome I want.

 

[Hanzou]

Videos prove nothing. I can post a video tomorrow claiming to be anything and edit the video to have whatever outcome I want.

Yet the video above doesn't fit that outline. It's clearly unedited beyond the beginning and the end of the challenge, and its clearly taking place in a dojo in Vietnam, just like the description said. Now, if I found the video to be dubious, it would be most helpful if I had more Aikido challenge matches to cross reference with, but I don't.

I mean, I have this;

But that simply reinforces the earlier video I posted, which in turn reinforces my own experiences with Aikido and Judo over the years.

Everything else is simply demonstrations.

 

[ballen0351]

Yet the video above doesn't fit that outline. It's clearly unedited beyond the beginning and the end of the challenge, and its clearly taking place in a dojo in Vietnam, just like the description said. Now, if I found the video to be dubious, it would be most helpful if I had more Aikido challenge matches to cross reference with, but I don't.

I mean, I have this;

But that simply reinforces the earlier video I posted, which in turn reinforces my own experiences with Aikido over the years.

Everything else is simply demonstrations.

Again how do you know the context of the video? Its not evidence of anything. I can create a "real looking" video to serve any agenda I want. If you had any real purpose other then style bashing you would go find a good Aikido teacher and learn all the answers to your questions. BUT we both know why your really here and we both know you have no desire to actually learn anything

 

[Flying Crane]

What does any of this matter? We all know that hanzou doesn't respect anything that isn't found in MMA competition in some way, so the nonsense he spouts shouldn't surprise anyone. At least he is consistent, I'll give him credit for that. So why engage the discussion with him? At all?

 

[drop bear]

Is there some non-anecdotal evidence of Aikido challenge matches that you'd like to share with us?

There is akijitsu which is some sort of akido thing but looks like it is trained live.

 

[drop bear]

So you know the entire history of Aikido, every fight, every private sparring match, every student, what happens in every dojo? Just because its not on You-Tube doesn't mean it didnt happen

Also I dont get the relation between "Challenge Matches" and self defense. Who cares if I cant win a trophy as long as it can save my life

Yeah how does that even work as an argument?

I mean would it make more sense so make a judgement on what we know rather than what we don't know. Otherwise I apply that logic and will come up with some insane conclusions.

 

[Hanzou]

Again how do you know the context of the video? Its not evidence of anything. I can create a "real looking" video to serve any agenda I want. If you had any real purpose other then style bashing you would go find a good Aikido teacher and learn all the answers to your questions. BUT we both know why your really here and we both know you have no desire to actually learn anything

Again, it's one of the few sources of fighting Aikido we have on tape that isn't a demonstration.

No one is style bashing here. It's a FACT that there's almost no recorded evidence of Aikido being utilized in a live environment. It's almost entirely demonstration based, or anecdotal stories.

 

[RTKDCMB]

Well we certainly have this little gem;



So we definitely know that that happened.

Which you have repeatedly taken out of context and used as an example of something it isn't.

 

[RTKDCMB]

I mean, I have this;

Which is clearly not a challenge match.

 

[Hanzou]

Which you have repeatedly taken out of context and used as an example of something it isn't.

How exactly was that video taken out of context?

It was a challenge match between a high ranking Aikidoka and a Turkish Wrestler. Did I miss anything?

 

[RTKDCMB]

. It's a FACT that there's almost no recorded evidence of Aikido being utilized in a live environment. It's almost entirely demonstration based, or anecdotal stories.

I suggest you start at 2:57:

 

[RTKDCMB]

It was a challenge match between a high ranking Aikidoka and a Turkish Wrestler. Did I miss anything?

Everything that happened before and after the video was taken, anything they may have discussed and agreed to for starters. You just took the author of the video's word for it that it was a challenge match because it suits your beliefs.

For all anyone knows the Aikido guy let the Turkish wrestler do his thing to make him look good. It also could have been the only time out of ten the Turkish wrestler got the upper hand and the author of the Video (which the Turkish wrestler is the head of) only posted what made them look good.That is probably not what happened but you can't know for sure.

 

[Hanzou]

I suggest you start at 2:57:

Yeah, that's a demo. The part before that was a bunch of guys tackling each other.

 

[RTKDCMB]

Yeah, that's a demo.

That was a black belt test not a demo, it's in the title.

 

[Hanzou]

That was a black belt test not a demo, it's in the title.

LoL!

Thats fine. Still doesn't change what I stated earlier.

 

[RTKDCMB]

Still doesn't change what I stated earlier.

That narrows it down a bit.

 

[Hanzou]

That narrows it down a bit.

I said that it's a FACT that there's almost no recorded evidence of Aikido being used in a live situation. A blurry video of a Steven Seagal black belt test doesn't change that fact.

Everything that happened before and after the video was taken, anything they may have discussed and agreed to for starters. You just took the author of the video's word for it that it was a challenge match because it suits your beliefs.

For all anyone knows the Aikido guy let the Turkish wrestler do his thing to make him look good. It also could have been the only time out of ten the Turkish wrestler got the upper hand and the author of the Video (which the Turkish wrestler is the head of) only posted what made them look good.That is probably not what happened but you can't know for sure.

All those questions are answered in the video clip. The Aikidoka challenged the wrestler, and it caught him by surprise at first, and when he was challenged again, he was surprised a second time.

There were no more tussles after those first two. It was pretty clear that they were done when the video ended. Given how the Aikidoka was clearly dominated both times, it's highly doubtful that he would gotten the upper hand if they went a hundred times.

 

[Flying Crane]

I said that it's a FACT that there's almost no recorded evidence of Aikido being used in a live situation.

This is true. Most things in life do not get filmed and posted on YouTube. So what this means is, we don't have any real idea what may or may not be happening at any given moment, around the world. Nothing more, nothing less.

Does that bother you? Do you believe that somehow means something of significance?

 

[RTKDCMB]

All those questions are answered in the video clip. The Aikidoka challenged the wrestler, and it caught him by surprise at first, and when he was challenged again, he was surprised a second time.

An 86 second YouTube video, that proves everything right?

There were no more tussles after those first two. It was pretty clear that they were done when the video ended.

Really? And you were there to see that there were no further tussles, spoke to the subjects of the video, saw other videos undeniably taken just after that video showing unequivocally that they were completely done, were privy to their discussion beforehand, have transcripts of exactly what was just said by each person involved or anything like that?

Again you cherry pick what suits you and dismiss what doesn't.

 

[ballen0351]

Yeah how does that even work as an argument?

I mean would it make more sense so make a judgement on what we know rather than what we don't know. Otherwise I apply that logic and will come up with some insane conclusions.

we can start by not making insane opinions and passing them off as fact, "well I've never seen it on YouTube so aikido doesn't work"