Bj penn UFC 232 (spoilers obviously)

[Buka]

FELLAS, let's try and stay polite.

But a note about that match. I enjoyed Hall's comments afterwards, about wanting to go train with BJ Penn. And about how much he leaned from him watching videos.

And that was a really nice move.

 

[Martial D]

It got stupid when you somehow interpreted my post as me saying that "BJJ wins all the time" or "BJJ is the greatest". I merely said that Hall's win is a win for BJJ in MMA because it raises the profile of the art in MMA, and gives current elite BJJ athletes (like Gordon Ryan)a blueprint for how to succeed in MMA.

Gordon? Is that you?

 

[JR 137]

It's funny because Dana White even said after the fight that he set this one up because they were both high level jiu jitsu guys and it would be a good submission match so even fat boy white who has 0 martial arts training understands that fact

No one is debating that. Zero relevance to what I said.

 

[JR 137]

You might want to edit that....



Again you're pinning an argument on me that I never made. My point is that Hall is on a winning streak like all of the BJJ fighters I mentioned. The fact that Bj Penn is also Bjj is inconsequential to that point. Additionally it could be argued that Penn is old school and Hall (like the others I mentioned) represent the new school.



If you seriously cant tell the difference between what Ryan Hall is doing and what Bj Penn has been doing, there's really no point in continuing this conversation.



All you have to do is read my posts in this thread. Don't react, just read.

I’ve read it several times without “reacting” to see if I’m missing something.

Nope. I’m not. You even quoted me quoting you.

In plain English...

“...another win for BJJ in MMA.”
How do you consider this a win for BJJ in MMA? They’re both BJJ guys. It wasn’t karate nor anything else vs BJJ.

Just because one guy has one flavor of BJJ and the other has another flavor of BJJ doesn’t mean it’s not BJJ vs BJJ. Kyokushin vs Shotokan is still karate vs karate. Penn’s BJJ vs Hall’s BJJ is still BJJ vs BJJ.

Yup. Another win for BJJ in MMA. You certainly got that right. No one saw a BJJ win coming in this fight. Who would’ve thunk it? I wish I had a time machine so I could go back in time and place a bet on “another win for BJJ in MMA.” I wonder what the Vegas odds were?

I’m just... I’m just done.

 

[Hanzou]

Anyway, Garry Tonnon and Nicky Ryan break down what Bj Penn should of done.

Garry Lee Tonon on Instagram: “B.J. Penn vs. Ryan hall breakdown by @garrytonon and @nickyryanbjj by @bruzeyydoesjiujitsu. An expanded breakdown will be available on…”

 

[Headhunter]

Trigger me? Please. I was laughing the entire time. Your line was so stupid, as is this dense of it.

Another win for BJJ in MMA? How do you not see the stupidity of that, considering it was BJJ vs BJJ? That’s my point, and that’s what’s keeping me laughing. Who was supposed to win that fight? The Muay Thai guy who was watching in the stands? Maybe the Kyokushin guy who ordered in on PPV? Or maybe the karate guy who didn’t watch it (me).

How utterly asinine and comical would I sound if I said “another karate MMA win” if it was 2 karate guys fighting? You’d be pissing your pants laughing too. And DESERVINGLY calling me a moron.

Would I be stupid for saying “another boxing win in prize fighting” when Mike Tyson knocked out Michael Spinks?

Mayweather just won a boxing match against a kickboxer in Japan.....another win for boxing lol

 

[Hanzou]

Looks like JR wasn't the only one triggered by my comment.

Here's another breakdown from Zombieproof;

Some have noted that Penn messed up by training in the gi over at Nova Uniao and generally focusing on the basics. I tend to agree with that assessment. Also I noticed Firas Zahabi in Ryan Hall's corner. That could explain the variations shown in the Imanari Roll that eventually did Penn in. Coach Zahabi is all about variations and changing things up.

 

[JR 137]

Looks like JR wasn't the only one triggered by my comment.

Here's another breakdown from Zombieproof;

Some have noted that Penn messed up by training in the gi over at Nova Uniao and generally focusing on the basics. I tend to agree with that assessment. Also I noticed Firas Zahabi in Ryan Hall's corner. That could explain the variations shown in the Imanari Roll that eventually did Penn in. Coach Zahabi is all about variations and changing things up.

Don’t “keep score” of BJJ wins when it’s bjj vs bjj.

You’re looking for validation that BJJ is the be all end all you make it out to be. A BJJ win against another BJJ guy doesn’t count in your overall stupid BJJ winning stats.

You didn’t trigger anything. Except the truth.

 

[Hanzou]

Don’t “keep score” of BJJ wins when it’s bjj vs bjj.

You’re looking for validation that BJJ is the be all end all you make it out to be. A BJJ win against another BJJ guy doesn’t count in your overall stupid BJJ winning stats.

You didn’t trigger anything. Except the truth.

LoL! By all means, find the post where I say that BJJ is the "be all end all".

Again, you're making arguments that no one made.

 

[Steve]

I may be wrong, but I think @Hanzou ’s original comment was more to do with who won and how than who lost. Ryan Hall is a unique talent. I’m not sure his tactics would work against higher level competition, but he brings something different to the table. I can see how that might lead to a comment about it being a win for BJJ. That he beat BJ Penn is relevant only in that Hall caught another high level BJJ guy. If he submitted Penn, it’s not unreasonable to suggest that he would have caught someone less skilled than a guy whose nickname is “the prodigy.”

 

[Hanzou]

I may be wrong, but I think @Hanzou ’s original comment was more to do with who won and how than who lost. Ryan Hall is a unique talent. I’m not sure his tactics would work against higher level competition, but he brings something different to the table. I can see how that might lead to a comment about it being a win for BJJ. That he beat BJ Penn is relevant only in that Hall caught another high level BJJ guy. If he submitted Penn, it’s not unreasonable to suggest that he would have caught someone less skilled than a guy whose nickname is “the prodigy.”

 

[JR 137]

LoL! By all means, find the post where I say that BJJ is the "be all end all".

Again, you're making arguments that no one made.

It’s impossible to quote nearly every post you’ve ever made.

You mean I’m the only one who thinks you’re a BJJ fanboy?

I’m wrong about a lot of $hit. Just ask my wife. But this one’s way too easy, even for a guy like me.

 

[Anarax]

Maynard can ***** and moan all he wants, but he deserved to lose that fight (listen to the commentators). Hall dominated him on multiple levels mentally and physically.

Hall was literally running away or falling to the floor at the first sign of trouble. He wasn't engaging and abandoned any technique he threw at the first sign of being countered.

 

[Headhunter]

Hall was literally running away or falling to the floor at the first sign of trouble. He wasn't engaging and abandoned any technique he threw at the first sign of being countered.

Agreed. People say UFC is real as it gets....well throwing yourself on the floor when someone's attacking you is a stupid idea in a real fight...even in Mma it's an awful strategy

 

[Hanzou]

Hall was literally running away or falling to the floor at the first sign of trouble. He wasn't engaging and abandoned any technique he threw at the first sign of being countered.

That's not what the stats say:

Gray Maynard vs. Ryan Hall - The Ultimate Fighter 24 Finale - Fight Statistics - ESPN

Hall landed more strikes, and more significant strikes, which is how he won the decision. It's not Hall's fault that Maynard didn't want to go to the mat. Since he didn't want to go to the mat, he got kicked instead.

 

[Hanzou]

Agreed. People say UFC is real as it gets....well throwing yourself on the floor when someone's attacking you is a stupid idea in a real fight...even in Mma it's an awful strategy

Well if that's the case, Maynard shouldn't have bolted in the opposite direction every time Hall butt-scooted towards him.

 

[Anarax]

That's not what the stats say:

Gray Maynard vs. Ryan Hall - The Ultimate Fighter 24 Finale - Fight Statistics - ESPN

Hall landed more strikes, and more significant strikes, which is how he won the decision. It's not Hall's fault that Maynard didn't want to go to the mat. Since he didn't want to go to the mat, he got kicked instead.

It's difficult to land strikes when your opponent is running away and flopping down at the first sign of trouble. I understand Hall wants to win and he exploited the ref for not calling him on flopping/not engaging. However, his plan was one dimensional and silly. Stand up, throw just enough kicks for points(Maynard caught a few of them), flop down when he counters or moves towards me.

 

[Anarax]

Agreed. People say UFC is real as it gets....well throwing yourself on the floor when someone's attacking you is a stupid idea in a real fight...even in Mma it's an awful strategy

If the refs would simply call fighters on that kind of behavior it would make the fights more dynamic.

 

[Hanzou]

It's difficult to land strikes when your opponent is running away and flopping down at the first sign of trouble. I understand Hall wants to win and he exploited the ref for not calling him on flopping/not engaging. However, his plan was one dimensional and silly. Stand up, throw just enough kicks for points(Maynard caught a few of them), flop down when he counters or moves towards me.

Except falling into guard IS engaging. Not engaging is seeing Hall fall into open guard and backing away like a scared kitten. If I was fighting someone and they fell on their back I would jump on them and bash their face in.

Unless I was afraid.

 

[Anarax]

Except falling into guard IS engaging.

No it's not. Hall getting a takedown then utilizing his jujitsu is engaging, getting taken down then utilizing his jujitsu is engaging. Flopping to the ground and running out the clock after scoring a few points isn't engaging.

Not engaging is seeing Hall fall into open guard and backing away like a scared kitten.

Not even close. Maynard was moving in and pressing forward, Hall decided to flop and wait for the round to be over. Maynard was kicking Hall on the ground, hardly the act of a "scared kitten".

If I was fighting someone and they fell on their back I would jump on them and bash their face in.

We differ on that approach

Overall, MMA/UFC has changed many of the rules and some of the Refs are more lenient with non-engagement than others. They need to re-evaluate the rules/octagon culture when the rules are exploited and entire strategies are developed that give way for lackluster performances.