Bible proven by Fulfilled Prophecies

[CanuckMA]

For Christians (and to a limited point, Jewish people too) The "who is/was Jesus?" issue is like that mountain in the distance of Buddhists or that Elephant being examined by the blindmen in western Philosophies....we won't see or know the whole story but will interpret and make discoveries based on our perspective.

One of the earliest historical points of contension about Jesus Messiah Yes or No was because, according to what I learned/read/interpreted, the majority of the Jewish community expected, wanted and believed (meaning had been taught and had faith in) that the Messiah was going to be like a second King David. Warrior King of the Jews who would drive out the Romans and rebuild a Jewish independent nation and regain Bethelehem.

When the Jesus/Christ/Messiah presentation of a Prince of Peace and civil unrest/internal examination/intraspection was laid before them most resisted because they EXPECTED a warrior/king in an earthly sense that would force External changes. The biblical (NT) Jesus generally is characterized as one who forces internal change.

The Jewish Messiah will ne a man who will do many things, bringing peace on earth beeing one of them. Jesus did not fulfill any of the criterion for beeing the Jewish messiah.

 

[kenpo tiger]

The Jewish Messiah will ne a man who will do many things, bringing peace on earth beeing one of them. Jesus did not fulfill any of the criterion for beeing the Jewish messiah.

Of course not. We can't even agree upon those criteria. The Satmar community believes Rebbe Schneerson will come back as the Messiah. [I personally don't buy that, but that's their take on it.] Look at how long the Diaspora has lasted - and how many places we've been chased out of.

 

[Raewyn]

Raisin,

This was also a major topic of debate held by the previously mentioned Nicene Council held in 325 by the church fathers. The "Arian Controversy" had to do with whether Jesus was the son of God or God incarnate. Arius, the Presbyter of Alexandria, stated that Jesus was not God in the flesh but rather the first entity God ever created. Athanasius, Bishop of Alexandria thought Jesus was indeed God come to Earth.

Arius' views were popular throughout the western part of the Roman Empire. He died not long before the vote to decide the issue, and Athanasius' views held sway. At that point it became the Arian heresy, and Arius' views were stamped out with the force of the Church and the backing of the Emperor.

A good book discussing the topic is When Jesus Became God: The Struggle to Define Christianity during the Last Days of Rome by Richard E. Rubenstein. Amazon carries it, and the site has a fairly well done review of the issues dealt with in the book. It also gives a person a great deal of insight into the early church.


Regards,


Steve

Thank you for your answer Steve, much appreciated!!! Im going for a look now

Raewyn

 

[Raewyn]

Raisin,



Regarding the issue of God / Son of God, that is a debated point of theology (like so many others). This issue centers on the idea of the triune God, the Trinity. Those that believe in the Trinity, believe that there are three personalities (for lack of a better term) to God. They are God the Father, God the Son (Jesus), and God the Holy Spirit. The three are one, coequal, but also distinct. An analog I try to use to help explain this deals with a scientific phenomenon know as the “triple point” of water. There is a special combination of temperature and pressure in which all three phases (solid, liquid, and gas) of water coexist simultaneously. Each phase is independent of the other with unique properties, but it exists as a whole system.



So, for those that believe in the Trinity, God the Father sent God the Son to live with us. God the Son (Jesus) lived for 33 years and spent the last 3 of those years in teaching / preaching / ministering to those in Israel. As the last act of this ministry, Jesus died to pay the price for my (and everyone else’s) sin so that I no longer had to be separated from God. After Jesus resurrected and ascended into heaven, God the Holy Spirit came to be the counselor for those that believe.


Hope that helps.
JPR

Thanks JPR for your input as well, I like to try and keep and open mind and to try and get a grasp on all the aspects.

 

[loki09789]

If the "Bible" has been proven by Fulfilled Prophecies, does that also mean that the Torah, Koran and any other Mid-East/Original Five books of the OT source has been 'proven?'

I still don't get what it has been 'proven' to be in the end. Divine? The ONE and only true religious guiding text? What?

The multiple (admittedly translate into English) texts of Buddhist philosophy, Toranical, Greek Mythological, Folktales.... that I have come across all have some spark of "Divine Message" IMO IF you read them for that meaning and for life lesson inspiration.

If God (fill in your version, even an ascended "Perfect" state consciousness) loves and created all, then why would he not leave a footprint trail for each unique culture to follow that was meaningful, Divine and specific to that culture. Heck, I live in the 21st century First World nation of USA, what do I REALLY know about the suffering of Jewish slave, or all the contextual sublties of slang and colloquealisms (yeah, love the spelling) that were intended for a specific Mid East audience for a specific time?


Even if I am holding the "ONE TRUE MESSAGE FROM GOD" in my hands, I won't be able to accurately be able to decipher it because of time, language, culture....not to mention laziness, greed, lust

There is SO much of the current Judeo/Christian orthodoxy ( Please don't confuse that statement with Orthodox Jewish or Christians - just meaning rituals and practices) that are more cultural adaptations/interpretations/practicallities and came from "Judeo/Christian folklore" than came from Biblical Mandate.

 

[heretic888]

The Jewish Messiah will ne a man who will do many things, bringing peace on earth beeing one of them. Jesus did not fulfill any of the criterion for beeing the Jewish messiah.

That's probably because the Christos --- as used by the earliest Christians such as Paul --- was more along the lines of a Divine Redeemer figure of the Pagan Mystery schools reworked in a more "Jewish" cultural guise. The Savior/Redeemer/Sacrificed One is essentially the nature of Osiris, Bacchus, Dionysus, Adonis, Atis, etc. to the various initiates. It is not traditional Judaism, but the more Hellenistic variety.

Of course, the trick didn't work, obviously. Most Jews at the time saw right through it.

If God (fill in your version, even an ascended "Perfect" state consciousness) loves and created all, then why would he not leave a footprint trail for each unique culture to follow that was meaningful, Divine and specific to that culture.

I believe there is a passage in Qu'ran (sorry, I don't have it in front of me now) that says something to that effect --- that God sends each culture and time a different prophet. And not all prophets are alike.

Or something like that. Laterz.

 

[PeachMonkey]

I believe there is a passage in Qu'ran (sorry, I don't have it in front of me now) that says something to that effect --- that God sends each culture and time a different prophet. And not all prophets are alike.

The Ba'hai have an extremely (to these cynical eyes) enlightened view on all this stuff, by simply saying that all religions simply view different aspects of the same divinity.

The Ba'hai practitioners I know tend to spend a lot less time arguing about religious minutae and using religious justifications to get carry out real-world agends, and more time pursuing the "love others", "do good works", pronouncements than most other skygod worshippers I've met.

Anecdotally yours,

PM

 

[Flatlander]

The Ba'hai have an extremely (to these cynical eyes) enlightened view on all this stuff, by simply saying that all religions simply view different aspects of the same divinity.

The Ba'hai practitioners I know tend to spend a lot less time arguing about religious minutae and using religious justifications to get carry out real-world agends, and more time pursuing the "love others", "do good works", pronouncements than most other skygod worshippers I've met.

Anecdotally yours,

PM

This has been my experience with people of the Ba'hai faith as well.

 

[kenpo tiger]

Peach and Dan -

What an interesting concept - and so simple.

So why isn't it universally accepted? (not arguing here - merely asking) I have absolutely no clue as to the Ba'Hai religion. Please give a brief precis? Thanks.

 

[PeachMonkey]

Peach and Dan -

What an interesting concept - and so simple.

So why isn't it universally accepted? (not arguing here - merely asking) I have absolutely no clue as to the Ba'Hai religion. Please give a brief precis? Thanks.

KT,

I'll follow up to this in another thread... I already gank threads too much as it is

 

[PeachMonkey]

KT:

Ba'hai thread:

http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=17398

 

[heretic888]

So why isn't it universally accepted?

Actually... outside of the "Big Three" (the mainstream versions of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam), the notion that "all religions lead to the same Path" or "all deities are manifestations of the One" is actually quite common. That's certainly the general attitude found in Buddhism, Hinduism, Taoism, and the various Hellenistic philosophies.

Its also the general attitude held by the Kabbalists, Sufis, Sunnis, Gnostics, and Judeo-Christian mystics as a whole (re: Eckhart, Clement, Origen, etc).

My guess as to why it isn't generally accepted in the exoterica of the mainstream Western religions is for historical-political reasons.