Better understanding the Twin Forearm/Square Block

[Th0mas]

This is the same motion that is seen in Heian nidan (pinan shodan)...

Change the range, then think about the application...

Rather than thinking long range, kicking or punching, think close range, grabbing distance. Then think about how real violence actually happens (YouTube is a good source) and what that means. Very fast flurries of strikes, not single punches, grabbing and pushing etc. Then think about flinch responses and how best to adapt them to gain control and then dominate.

That should give you an idea of the type of application the motion is showing you.

wedge blocking is the best way to describe it.

 

[Kickboxer101]

I know I say this to you a lot but why don't you ask your instructor since he knows how he wants it taught and we can all say things but he may have his own ideas

 

[Azulx]

I know I say this to you a lot but why don't you ask your instructor since he knows how he wants it taught and we can all say things but he may have his own ideas

The thing is you are assuming that I do not ask my instructor. I am completely aware of how we teach these blocks. I ask other people's opinions and understandings to further expand my perspective. There are people on here who have much more experience than my instructor. That being said I will do what he says, but that doesn't mean I can't learn anything from anyone else.

 

[Dirty Dog]

I know I say this to you a lot but why don't you ask your instructor since he knows how he wants it taught and we can all say things but he may have his own ideas

Because he's not asking how it's done. He's asking about application, which is something else entirely.

 

[RTKDCMB]

Considering that the two arms pretty much always move simultaneously the basic application is blocking two strikes from two different people simultaneously, One being a downward strike (like a knife hand strike) from the side and the other a punch from the front. Another basic application is blocking a punch from the front and having your other hand poised for an immediate hammer fist to the temple.

As with most martial arts techniques there is usually a basic application that the originator had in mind that is later found to have other uses.

Another application that I thought up a few minutes ago would be if your friend was about to get hit over the head with something so you step in and push him aside with your front arm whilst you block the object with your rear arm.

 

[Th0mas]

Considering that the two arms pretty much always move simultaneously the basic application is blocking two strikes from two different people simultaneously, One being a downward strike (like a knife hand strike) from the side and the other a punch from the front.

I am sorry to be blunt.. But no, never!

Outside of heavily choreographed displays or demonstrations (or martial arts movies) that interpretation of the movement is not only impractical but pushes the application into the realms of impossibility. It requires a specific set of circumstances, an exact number of opponents, angles of attack and just the right type of strikes for it to be effective.

Sorry but, no no no!

 

[RTKDCMB]

I am sorry to be blunt

And wrong.

It requires a specific set of circumstances, an exact number of opponents, angles of attack and just the right type of strikes for it to be effective.

That is just one example. Would it be common to be attacked by two people at the same time? Not as common as a single attacker but still common. Does it require those specific strikes or types of strikes? No. Any downward strike with or without a weapon and something coming at your face,either from straight on or from an angle, such as a back fist or turning kick, reverse knife hand (ridge hand) etc. And you don't need an exact number of opponents, just two attacking at the same time. For example you have one opponent standing in front of you trying to pick a fight. His friend comes at you from the side while he thinks you are sufficiently distracted and tries to hit you over the head with a pool cue. Whilst his friend is doing that the first guy takes advantage of you being distracted by the pool cue coming down on you decides to punch you in the face as well. See not impossible.

 

[Th0mas]

And wrong.
That is just one example. Would it be common to be attacked by two people at the same time? Not as common as a single attacker but still common. Does it require those specific strikes or types of strikes? No. Any downward strike with or without a weapon and something coming at your face,either from straight on or from an angle, such as a back fist or turning kick, reverse knife hand (ridge hand) etc. And you don't need an exact number of opponents, just two attacking at the same time. For example you have one opponent standing in front of you trying to pick a fight. His friend comes at you from the side while he thinks you are sufficiently distracted and tries to hit you over the head with a pool cue. Whilst his friend is doing that the first guy takes advantage of you being distracted by the pool cue coming down on you decides to punch you in the face as well. See not impossible.

Wow.. I struggle to even begin to respond to this.. I will start with picking holes in your example and then summarise with some principles.

• Firstly the point is not that the scenario is unlikely, getting attacked whist engaged with another is a probable situation you might reasonably expect to find yourself in when being assaulted in a bar, pub etc. In fact I would argue in that type of venue.. quite common. However your solution's effectiveness is highly improbable.
• Secondly, have you every tried to block a pool cue with a rising block? wood on bone? by some one wielding a pool cue with full intent and aggression?
• Thirdly, if we forget the pool cue and suggest that the second attacker is not using a weapon? To be able to effectively block the second attacker who is blind siding you, you either have to already know he is doing it (a choreographed fight.. as per my previous post) or you have magic powers...
• Fourthly, for a "double block" application to be effective it requires that the two assailants attack with single techniques.. if by some accident of chance you succeed in blocking both the attacks what happens next? Both your arms are engaged, you are at a massive disadvantage and the best you can hope for is to repeat the miracle block you have just performed.

The point is none of this is realistic.

Given that the goal is to be able to protect yourself when being assaulted, that the situation is going to be emotionally highly-charged and you will be experiencing all the usual symptoms of adrenaline dump, where your fine motor skills are significantly degraded - the core strategy is to train in applications that have a high probability of success, require simple macro movements and have been ingrained in muscle memory. This requires many hours of your limited training time to become habitual.
The reality of a physical confrontation is that things happen very fast (much faster than dojo kumite or sparring), if you are on the receiving end of being assaulted, the first challenge you have is to deal with your own emotional response (rabbit in headlights). Secondly you have to deal with a flurry of attacks, not single techniques or strikes. That invariable means that your initial response needs to be automatic, have a high probability of success and deals with taking control of the situation.
Dealing with multiple attackers is all about perception, movement and positioning, placing yourself to reduce the odds at every given opportunity and not getting caught or held, and less about applications or specific techniques found in forms.
Ok, so what has all this got to do with the application of the "square block"?

1. Well the form or kata is providing you with examples of applications that demonstrate a set of fighting principles or strategies. They are not an exhaustive set of techniques to deal with every potential technique that will be thrown at you (that would mean forms would be 1000's of moves long).
2. When performing the form the assumption in the majority of cases, is that your opponent is in front of you. (As a general rule it is never a good idea to turn your back on your assailant)
3. Your are dealing with "real violence" not re-invented violence to suite dojo kumite or the particular flavoured fighting style of your Martial Art. This is not TKD vs TKD or Karate vs Karate. So shorten the range.. this is at touching distance.
4. At short range.. single arm blocking (as is practiced at long range in class) is not very effective. Action nearly always beats re-action. Blocking in kata tends to always incorporate a simultaneous strike and controlling and/or entanglement elements and uses both arms.
5. The embusen or the direction of movement is in relation to the direction you will be facing your opponent not the direction the attacks are coming in. Therefore movement is generally about shifting off your opponents attacking line to unbalance him and provide you with mechanical advantage to apply your applications.

So hopefully you can see why I strongly disagree with your opening suggestion of a double block against two assailants?

 

[RTKDCMB]

You have some good points but there are some misconceptions you seem to have that I will now clear up. For one thing the twin forearm block is not the most common of techniques, you are more likely to use the two blocks that make up the block separately but a simultaneous attack by two people (however unlikely) is an application nonetheless:
.

Secondly, have you every tried to block a pool cue with a rising block? wood on bone? by some one wielding a pool cue with full intent and aggression?

Perhaps the pool cue was a bad example as it is a more long range attack, for the purposes of the discussion the identity of the object is irrelevant. Blocking the weapon itself is undesirable but still preferable to getting hit over the head (a broken arm is easier to deal with than a broken head), you would block the arm, not the weapon if you have to block.

Thirdly, if we forget the pool cue and suggest that the second attacker is not using a weapon? To be able to effectively block the second attacker who is blind siding you, you either have to already know he is doing it (a choreographed fight.. as per my previous post) or you have magic powers..

Or you can have a basic awareness and functioning peripheral vision.

Both your arms are engaged, you are at a massive disadvantage and the best you can hope for is to repeat the miracle block you have just performed.

I am curious as to why you seem to think blocking attacks means that you just stand there in the same spot and wait for the next one with the same arm positions.

Given that the goal is to be able to protect yourself when being assaulted, that the situation is going to be emotionally highly-charged and you will be experiencing all the usual symptoms of adrenaline dump, where your fine motor skills are significantly degraded

If you let your emotions get the better of you or you are a willing participant in the fight or you are inexperienced in the martial arts or you don't know how to finish a fight quickly you will.

the core strategy is to train in applications that have a high probability of success, require simple macro movements and have been ingrained in muscle memory. This requires many hours of your limited training time to become habitual.

And that is exactly what we do. Unless you are getting into fights every week or your art has a very limited range of techniques probably 90% of the individual techniques you learn you will not require for actual self defence. Basic blocks, strikes and kicks are simple and are ingrained in muscle memory through training.

Secondly you have to deal with a flurry of attacks, not single techniques or strikes.

Actually you have to be able to deal with both.

That invariable means that your initial response needs to be automatic, have a high probability of success and deals with taking control of the situation.

Dealing with multiple attackers is all about perception, movement and positioning, placing yourself to reduce the odds at every given opportunity and not getting caught or held, and less about applications or specific techniques found in forms.

Again, when you block strikes you are not just standing in one spot and leaving your arms in the blocking positions while you wait for the next one. Your preaching to the choir.

Your are dealing with "real violence" not re-invented violence to suite dojo kumite or the particular flavoured fighting style of your Martial Art. This is not TKD vs TKD or Karate vs Karate. So shorten the range.. this is at touching distance.

I never said it was.

Blocking in kata tends to always incorporate a simultaneous strike and controlling and/or entanglement elements and uses both arms.

You are talking in terms of Karate, the OP studies TKD and although there are many common elements there are also significant differences.

And point or order; the OP was asking for applications, not how likely or realistic those applications were. Blocking two simultaneous attacks (which is an application his instructor told him) is still more likely than having to block a flying double leg scissor kick.

 

[Th0mas]

You have some good points but there are some misconceptions you seem to have that I will now clear up. For one thing the twin forearm block is not the most common of techniques, you are more likely to use the two blocks that make up the block separately but a simultaneous attack by two people (however unlikely) is an application nonetheless:
.View attachment 20101View attachment 20102

Ok, I accept your advice about the commonality, or lack thereof, of the twin forearm block with regard to TKD. I also accept that TKD practitioners may use the blocks separately, however it is very unlikely that the simultaneous block interpretation of the application bares any resemblance to the original intent of the motion.
I Know the OP was not discussing Forms in particular, however In terms of karate, the "square block" is a cornerstone application (meaning the rest of the kata hinges off this initial move) in two of the first 5 kata taught (Heian Nedan/Pinan shodan and Heian/Pinan yondan). Which means it is far from uncommon, particular in the context of dealing with close range self protection tactics.
I would also argue that in terms of understanding the application of this movement (as the OP requested), taking a lead from how karate practitioners apply the motion provides a good basis in which to start the discussion. The reality of this approach and subsequent considerations, may not fit neatly into the long-range emphasis of TKD, but that is hardly the fault of the original creators of the kata (in the case of the Heians/Pinans that would arguably be Itosu in the late 19th Century), the same kata that are the basis of the modern TKD forms taught today and where the "square block" is represented.
BTW The attached images look like demonstration footage.. not an example of a real application.

Secondly, have you every tried to block a pool cue with a rising block? wood on bone? by some one wielding a pool cue with full intent and aggression?

Perhaps the pool cue was a bad example as it is a more long range attack, for the purposes of the discussion the identity of the object is irrelevant. Blocking the weapon itself is undesirable but still preferable to getting hit over the head (a broken arm is easier to deal with than a broken head), you would block the arm, not the weapon if you have to block.

Yes it is a bad example, however even the idea that you are practising a technique to simultaneous block two attacks from two opponents from different directions is also very unrealistic.

Thirdly, if we forget the pool cue and suggest that the second attacker is not using a weapon? To be able to effectively block the second attacker who is blind siding you, you either have to already know he is doing it (a choreographed fight.. as per my previous post) or you have magic powers..

Or you can have a basic awareness and functioning peripheral vision.

yes and if I only had a gun, or a couple of mates or never walked into the bar in the first place... This is a circular argument and does not change my point about how unrealistic blocking two attacks from two separate attackers simultaneously actually is, and is therefore not a good interpretation of the application of the "square block".

I am curious as to why you seem to think blocking attacks means that you just stand there in the same spot and wait for the next one with the same arm positions.

I am not, I am just highlighting the absurdity of your initial proposition. The rule of thumb should be that the application as a minimum should be able to finish the fight ( if you are lucky) or at least leave you in an advantageous position.

Given that the goal is to be able to protect yourself when being assaulted, that the situation is going to be emotionally highly-charged and you will be experiencing all the usual symptoms of adrenaline dump, where your fine motor skills are significantly degraded

If you let your emotions get the better of you or you are a willing participant in the fight or you are inexperienced in the martial arts or you don't know how to finish a fight quickly you will.

Now come on! I really hope you are not seriously suggesting that somehow you do not experience fear? and that this does not degrade your performance? That was a very glib response that has no basis in reality...

the core strategy is to train in applications that have a high probability of success, require simple macro movements and have been ingrained in muscle memory. This requires many hours of your limited training time to become habitual.

And that is exactly what we do. Unless you are getting into fights every week or your art has a very limited range of techniques probably 90% of the individual techniques you learn you will not require for actual self defence. Basic blocks, strikes and kicks are simple and are ingrained in muscle memory through training.

True, but lets not pretend that your double block interpretation has any viability in a real confrontation, it might be something you do for fun, a demonstration or for the "art".
However this moves the discussion into the "why" you train. There is no problem if you wish to pursue stuff that is not relevant to self-protection, as long as it is clear that that is what you are doing. If the basis of your position is that, then fine.. we can agree and move on.

Secondly you have to deal with a flurry of attacks, not single techniques or strikes.

Actually you have to be able to deal with both.

Yes (although your comment is slightly taken out of context), but the whole basis of my interpretation of the movement is that it deals with the initial flurry of attacks, not a single technique. The point is there is a principle or tactic being demonstrated in the kata with this "square block" movement.

You are dealing with "real violence" not re-invented violence to suite dojo kumite or the particular flavoured fighting style of your Martial Art. This is not TKD vs TKD or Karate vs Karate. So shorten the range.. this is at touching distance.

I never said it was.

But the only logical explanation for your interpretation is that you are defending against TKD attacks at long range.. not a real assault.

Blocking in kata tends to always incorporate a simultaneous strike and controlling and/or entanglement elements and uses both arms

You are talking in terms of Karate, the OP studies TKD and although there are many common elements there are also significant differences.

And point or order; the OP was asking for applications, not how likely or realistic those applications were. Blocking two simultaneous attacks (which is an application his instructor told him) is still more likely than having to block a flying double leg scissor kick.

You are right, I am talking in terms of karate; and you are right, blocking two simultaneous attacks is MUCH more likely than a flying double leg scissor kick.
The OP did not specify realistic or plausable explanations either.. I might suggest that dealing with the silvered foreleg and golden coiled horn of a unicorn might also be postulated as an application for the movement...
... he also didn't restrict guys like me with a karate background responding to his requests.. unless you feel I don't bring a different perspective to the discussion and should essentially bog-off?

 

[RTKDCMB]

unless you feel I don't bring a different perspective to the discussion and should essentially bog-off?

Why would I want you to 'bog-off' just because we disagree on some elements? The purpose of a forum is to present differing views and discuss them is it not?

 

[Th0mas]

Why would I want you to 'bog-off' just because we disagree on some elements? The purpose of a forum is to present differing views and discuss them is it not?

Well I am glad for that
Let the debate continue ...

 

[Buka]

I've really enjoyed reading your discussion, guys.

 

[Th0mas]

I've really enjoyed reading your discussion, guys.

Well I am glad others are enjoying this debate outside of RTKDCMB and my little bubble.

We're nothing if not here to entertain

 

[Buka]

Well I am glad others are enjoying this debate outside of RTKDCMB and my little bubble.

We're nothing if not here to entertain

Yeah, but I'm learning, too. I have little experience with that block/stance, other than with sticks. It's been interesting to follow, gives me things to think about. Also kinda nice to see two guys not shouting.

 

[RTKDCMB]

Now come on! I really hope you are not seriously suggesting that somehow you do not experience fear? and that this does not degrade your performance? That was a very glib response that has no basis in reality.

During the initial exchange before a fight (if there is one) sure, I feel the nerves but once the first attack is thrown not really. In the last fight I had, except for one wild punch (which still landed where I wanted it to), I had complete control over over the choice of every strike and block I used. So my response was neither glib nor inconsistent with reality, Contrary to popular belief a traditional martial artist's training doesn't just fall apart as soon as the first punch is thrown.

usual symptoms of adrenaline dump

And what are the actual symptoms of adrenaline dump? I had never even heard of the term until I started using martial arts forums like this one. Are they anything like the nervous reaction you get after narrowly avoiding a car accident? I feel it then but not during fights.

 

[Th0mas]

Just a quick one (I'm at work).

Yes the car accident example is a post event experience of it.

Basically the adrenaline dump is where, as a result of aggressive stimulus or a perception of life threatening danger, your adrenal gland releases massive quantities of adrenaline. Being the flight or fight drug, it makes some physiological changes to your body (vasoconstriction of blood vessels close to your skin, tunnel focus and removal of periferal distractions, hightenened oxygen supply to your major muscle groups etc). If over stimulated this can lead to some particular problems.. Freezing (rabbit in headlights), a massive feeling of panic, loss of fine motor skills etc

You might experience everything running in slow motion, or a slight out of body experience as your thought processes speed up. I certainly had that experience in my first ever fight in competition back in the 80's.

A prolonged pre-fight lead up is a common experience for martial artists where this can happen. But it also can happen in a snap, with a simple trigger, like a shout or aggressive push.

Everybody gets it, the trick is to learn how to ride the wave and use its advantages to drive your actions. However it is a double edged sword and can change a confident, experienced martial artist into a gibberish wreck, unable to rely on their training just at the point when they need it most.

It is worth reading the fence by Geoff Thompson or anything by Rory Miller. They do a much better job of explaining the adrenaline dump, it's challenges and its uses in self protection.

 

[Th0mas]

... Just to add
It is one of the main reasons you need to have a "catch-all" response or tactic to deal with a sudden assault. The wedge application being one of those.

 

[Mark Lynn]

RTDCMB and Th0mas, I've enjoyed your discussion and the whole threads discussion on this block. I'd like to propose another alternative view point, and I don't mean to side track the discussion at all nor make it out like I have the secret answer, more knowledge etc. etc. My primary art was/is an Americanized version of TKD in that we do the ITF forms (Chungi onward), and yet for a couple of years I studied Wado ryu, which was actually more like a bastardized version of Shotokan (my instructor studied Shotokan first, then Wado, so it wasn't pure Wado, which is why I said bastardized I mean no disrespect for either Shotokan nor Wado) so neither my TKD nor the Karate I studied came from "pure" instructors as in Japanese or Korean.

I had an interest in the kata practiced by both systems because there were undeniable similarities between them. Yet much of the written material at that time (1980's) suggested that TKD was an old art and developed independently of karate. Over time I've read enough and collected enough to get a basic understanding of how karate was developed in Okinawa, brought to Japan, then to Korea, then to the world through these three main arts. (I'm speaking in a large general sense.) So they share a common bond so to speak especially in kata.

You have some good points but there are some misconceptions you seem to have that I will now clear up. For one thing the twin forearm block is not the most common of techniques, you are more likely to use the two blocks that make up the block separately but a simultaneous attack by two people (however unlikely) is an application nonetheless:
.View attachment 20101View attachment 20102

You are talking in terms of Karate, the OP studies TKD and although there are many common elements there are also significant differences.

And point or order; the OP was asking for applications, not how likely or realistic those applications were. Blocking two simultaneous attacks (which is an application his instructor told him) is still more likely than having to block a flying double leg scissor kick.

"For one thing the twin forearm block is not the most common of techniques, you are more likely to use the two blocks that make up the block separately......."

I believe that there is a logical application for the moves that I believe predates the way the movements as they are practiced now which makes the applications more realistic, more likely to happen, and useful.

You are talking in terms of Karate, the OP studies TKD and although there are many common elements there are also significant differences.

True but the moves and the sequences came from the kata the Okinawans created, that were brought to Japan and modified and then later taught to the Koreans who then created TKD. The differences between the two (well three arts) can be very different, but the applications of the movements that are being discussed in the context of the kata are similar because the following movements are similar.

".........but a simultaneous attack by two people (however unlikely) is an application nonetheless:"
"(which is an application his instructor told him)"

No offense but this is part of the problem, a possible lack of understanding of the original application and execution of the moves being passed down to students, and instructors trying to come up with possible applications to kata.

Ok, I accept your advice about the commonality, or lack thereof, of the twin forearm block with regard to TKD. I also accept that TKD practitioners may use the blocks separately, however it is very unlikely that the simultaneous block interpretation of the application bares any resemblance to the original intent of the motion.

I agree, I don't think it bares any resemblance to the original intent of the motion. I also think the motion or the way the block was performed changed when it went to Japan. But I believe the two person attack application came from Japanese sources not the Koreans, although I searched my book collection for examples and could only find it in the TKD books, not the karate books (at least my older books). However I believe I have seen you tube video of bunkai footage of this move in the kata (pinan 1 and 4) and I've seen the two person attack.

I Know the OP was not discussing Forms in particular, however In terms of karate, the "square block" is a cornerstone application (meaning the rest of the kata hinges off this initial move) in two of the first 5 kata taught (Heian Nedan/Pinan shodan and Heian/Pinan yondan). Which means it is far from uncommon, particular in the context of dealing with close range self protection tactics.
I would also argue that in terms of understanding the application of this movement (as the OP requested), taking a lead from how karate practitioners apply the motion provides a good basis in which to start the discussion. The reality of this approach and subsequent considerations, may not fit neatly into the long-range emphasis of TKD, but that is hardly the fault of the original creators of the kata (in the case of the Heians/Pinans that would arguably be Itosu in the late 19th Century), the same kata that are the basis of the modern TKD forms taught today and where the "square block" is represented.
BTW The attached images look like demonstration footage.. not an example of a real application.

Yes it is a bad example, however even the idea that you are practising a technique to simultaneous block two attacks from two opponents from different directions is also very unrealistic.

"The reality of this approach and subsequent considerations, may not fit neatly into the long-range emphasis of TKD, but that is hardly the fault of the original creators of the kata (in the case of the Heians/Pinans that would arguably be Itosu in the late 19th Century), the same kata that are the basis of the modern TKD forms taught today and where the "square block" is represented."

I agree but the long range application approach I think started with Japan and was adopted by the Koreans and then later still modified, in that the later forms have gone back to a more upright stance as opposed to the older Japanese influenced kata of Tang Soo Do, and the ITF kata.

In the book "The Essence of Okinawan Karate-Do" by Shoshin Nagamine on page 73 there is a picture of Wari-uke-zuki (split bock punch) done in a forward stance, on page 117 it shows the opening moves of Pinan Shodan with the same structure as the previous picture but in a back stance, the picture on pg 135 shows the same structure to the move but with open hands and in a back stance. The split block punch is described as an upper block with a punch (like an upper cut).

To see the picture it makes sense, that instead of having the hips in line with the front heel so the rear hand faces towards the opponent, in this application the hips align with the rear heel so that the rear hand faces in the same direction as the rear heel. So if the attack is say a front punch coming at you and you are facing your opponent you would upper block with your rear hand while striking him with the front. Likewise this works if a circular strike is coming from your side and you block with the rear hand. If you were in close and someone reached to grab your lapel or shoulder this could knock the hand away and counter attack at the same time.

The way I learned the block in Wado had the motion of the arms raise up in a circular motion in front of the body, this motion could block two attacks from two directions one from the front and one from the side, and be used as two separate blocks, but that seems a backward way of doing things. I mean why not teach it as those blocks are taught throughout the rest of the kata group as separate blocks if that was the main goal. Why the change for the opening move of the kata? And why the opening move of the first kata that was to be taught to school kids? To me that doesn't make sense nor really fit historically.

In regards to the upper block blocking high kicks etc.etc. I don't think that was the intent either, because the movement was created for kata that was to be taught in schools with self defense type situations in mind not sparring. We look at things from today's perspective where sparring and sporting applications are generally the main focus, likewise I don't think that attacks from two people from different directions would be the opening move from a kata meant to teach school kids.

The open hand movement in the kata (pinan 4), was taught to me to mean "mind like water" as in being reflective as I check both of my sides for any attackers, it's funny that I didn't see the guy in front of me, as I checked both sides. In fact we did the move very slowly with tension breathing, I thought it was probably to scare the guy in front till he finally just said "oh hell he has no clue" and attacked. I'm kidding of course, my point to this is that instructors will come up with all sorts of interpretations when asked for explanation of moves.

I have read where sensei Funakoshi changed karate when he brought it to Japan; over time the study of one kata over years, changed to learning many kata, bunkai was de-emphasized, and in time as it spread to universities then the sparring emphasis took priority. Which would change things as well. Is it possible that the emphasis on sparring took karate from a self defense view point to more of a dueling view point (two people engaged in mutual combat). So then, perhaps the twin forearm block became more of a posture (as it was taught) instead of a "technique". For instance in the famous fight between Choki Motobu and the Boxer; the drawing depicting the fight, that was published in a Japanese magazine, shows (I believe) Motobu (drawn as Funokoshi) in I believe this open handed (mind like water) position as he looks to be circling the boxer.

It's to far back in history to know if Funokoshi (for example) changed it, or maybe Shoshin Nagamine did, or if Itosu taught it differently to different students (which he did when teaching karate), or if sparring changed it etc. etc. However I do think that if we look to history we can find an easy application that works and that gives us more to think about how things might have came about and the development of karate/TKD

I do think we need to question what is the purpose of this move or that, ask our instructors, ask others, do research and work it out. However we can come up with a multitude of different applications (from all these different sources) that seem to go with the technique but don't really fit because of how it is executed. For instance the way I was taught the block in my TKD was that the hands come up in a narrow line across my body "as if I was pulling the covers over my head at night", so the force is going more forward instead of circular in front of my body. In this case the block is more towards the front and the rear hand is used to set up the next strike (as in a chop), but it doesn't really work for blocking a circular attack from the side like the Wado method. However looking at a picture you wouldn't know how or the way the block is performed just the end result, the finish so to speak.

So the way the block is performed really helps set context to how the technique or the intent behind the technique is to be used. So for the OP maybe a description of how you do the block would help in proper suggestions on how to apply it.

 

[Mark Lynn]

Upon further investigation I realize that I'm wrong about the possible application that I suggested in my previous post that the twin forearm block might actually be a upward block and a punch and that could be the application as taught in the Matsubayashi School of Shorin-ryu. I believed from looking at the pictures that I mentioned that this was a possible application, although from looking at video last night on You Tube I ran across a video of an instructor of that style demonstrating the kata and while the hip position isn't as defined as in the book, the positions of the hands and how they get there is clearly a middle block instead of an upper cut punch.

I originally started looking for videos on You Tube to see if I could find the ones I had seen where the Twin Forearm block was used as a block against two attackers (one from the front and from the side), but I quickly changed my mind and just watched different styles performing the Pinan kata (1 and 4) and how they executed the techniques and how they followed up afterwards. Because from a picture it is easy to think it is something else; how they get to the block, the path the hands take, the final position and what comes next (the follow up) helps to understand the possible uses of the block.

Take for instance my wrong belief that the picture of ShoShin Nagamine showed him upward blocking with the rear hand and an upper cut punch with the front. I came across that photo in 1990 when I was trying to understand more about our TKD forms and decided to compare how different styles did the form and possible explanations of the differences. From that one picture all of those years ago I formed a belief, because frankly it made more sense than the applications I had been taught, however now with video (from You Tube and other sources) I understand my assumption was wrong. Not that the possible application as the upward block and upper cut doesn't fit the picture, but that that was the way it was practiced or that was the way it was taught all of those years ago.