Best side kick I have seen on Youtube

[Steve]

Because I have talked to chief instructors like Dirty Dog and they have this autistic expertise about their own art and don't know more than a layperson about the others, often even parent arts.

And part of autism is a refusal to look beyond ones own horizon, and that's a chief instructor for you...

Autism isn't a behavior. It is a medically diagnosed developmental disorder. I find your use of the term very distasteful. I have friends and relatives who are actually autistic, and using the term as a cheap insult is just not okay.

 

[JowGaWolf]

He is not sparring

yes I know, but I look at techniques from the perspective of application and effectiveness and not based on how nice it looks, hence my statement. "Im too functional for this discussion". For example, trying to determine where the kick comes from means zero to me. If the kick isn't functional nor practical then everyone will be trying their best not to claim the click. But because the discussion is about how nice the kick looks you hear people wanting to claim that it comes from different systems.

To me the only thing that matters is.
1. Is the kick functional
2. Is the kick found in other systems.

If the kick is functional then it's of use. If the kick is found in other systems then that gives you insight on which systems may try to use this kick against you.. How nice it looks is just cosmetic when it comes to function.

 

[JowGaWolf]

It doesn't.. Most people don't do it this well though in Shotokan

See. this is what I'm talking about. Cosmetic. What I'm actually seeing this discussion is how a kick looks and who can make it look nice.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

NOTICE TO ALL MEMBERS:

Personal insults are not tolerated. If they continue, those involved may receive points and/or time off.

Gerry Seymour
MartialTalk Moderator
@gpseymour

 

[Earl Weiss]

And it was a shotokan guy doing it. So thats it wasnt TKD

So, if a German makes Pizza it's not Italian?

 

[Metal]

How does this "Side Kick" differ from the "Taekwondo" Sidekick. ? Detailed explanation please.

There are differences:

Right arm:
In (Kukkiwon) Taekwondo both arms are kept close to the body when performing a sidekick.

Pivoting foot:
After the kick he's pivoting the foot of the supporting leg on the heel. In (Kukkiwon) Taekwondo you'd turn on the ball of the foot.

Also:
The leaning and 'falling' forward into the next stance is something you would not see in a Taekwondo Poomsae.

It's a great kick nevertheless.

 

[Acronym]

There are differences:

Right arm:
In (Kukkiwon) Taekwondo both arms are kept close to the body when performing a sidekick.

Pivoting foot:
After the kick he's pivoting the foot of the supporting leg on the heel. In (Kukkiwon) Taekwondo you'd turn on the ball of the foot.

Also:
The leaning and 'falling' forward into the next stance is something you would not see in a Taekwondo Poomsae.

It's a great kick nevertheless.

There is no rule where to keep the arms. It all depends on the context

 

[Acronym]

So, if a German makes Pizza it's not Italian?

It's not an Italian just because he made pizza... This was a Karateka with Karate terminology.

 

[Steve]

So, if a German makes Pizza it's not Italian?

You ever have german pizza? It's definitely not italian.

 

[Metal]

There is no rule where to keep the arms. It all depends on the context

Well, when it comes to Kibon Dongjak/Basic Movements and Poomsae in (Kukkiwon) Taekwondo, there is a rule of how to hold the arms. On the one hand to remind people from not doing a 'dying swan' pose when performing the kick and to distinguish it from the Karate and ITF versions.

In "The Official Explanation of Official Taekwondo Poomsae II" by Kang, Ik Pil:

"양손은 가슴앞에 위치" = Both hands are in front of the chest

In the "Taekwondo Basic Technique Movement Guide" by Noh Kyung Jun, Park Su Ui and Lee Young Rim:

The Kukkiwon Textbook does not specify it in textform, but shows it in the pictures:

 

[Acronym]

Well, when it comes to Kibon Dongjak/Basic Movements and Poomsae in (Kukkiwon) Taekwondo, there is a rule of how to hold the arms.

That is one out of several possible contexts. And if that's the best you got, then TKD and Karate throw the thrusting side kick more or less the same...

 

[Acronym]

KKW seems to kick with a different contact point than ITF. We don't turn over our foot that much.

 

[Metal]

That is one out of several possible contexts. And if that's the best you got, then TKD and Karate throw the thrusting side kick more or less the same...

When performing a kick there's more to it than just the leg that's kicking. There's a basic/unified version of the technique and of course it can and must be adapted to the respective situation. However, when teaching and performing Poomsae, then one should teach and stick to the basic 'textbook' version. In Poomsae competition points will be deducted for any deviations. Regarding Poomsae and basic techniques in black belt tests, small derivations usually aren't a big issue.

KKW seems to kick with a different contact point than ITF. We don't turn over our foot that much.

As far as I remember, regarding the attacking 'tool' in the ITF Kibon Dongjak, there are different variants of the sidekick. One of them is with the ball of the foot, but another one is with the foot-sword, same as the Kukkiwon.

But that's actually somethings that needs to be adapted to the situation. When using a sidekick as a push kick in sparring one would use the sole of the foot, for extra range to a soft target the side thrusting kick with the ball of the foot is an option.

The 'turning' of the foot (with the toes facing a little bit downwards) distinguishes the (Kukkiwon) Taekwondo sidekick from the Karate and ITF versions visually, but it is also based on the rotating 'corkscrew' effect that you also see in Taekwondo punches.

 

[Earl Weiss]

It's not an Italian just because he made pizza... This was a Karateka with Karate terminology.

Let's try again. Clearly you missed the point. We have a local middle eastern restaurant that bough a former Pizzeria . Chefs / cooks are Latino. They make middle eastern dishes and also Pizza in the original Pizza oven. So, you are saying that Pizza is not Italian? Point being that "saying one person or country can claim a certain kick or punch is like saying one person or country discovered fire or invented the wheel." I paraphrase - but do you know where that quote s from.

 

[Acronym]

Let's try again. Clearly you missed the point. We have a local middle eastern restaurant that bough a former Pizzeria . Chefs / cooks are Latino. They make middle eastern dishes and also Pizza in the original Pizza oven. So, you are saying that Pizza is not Italian? Point being that "saying one person or country can claim a certain kick or punch is like saying one person or country discovered fire or invented the wheel." I paraphrase - but do you know where that quote s from.

My point wasn't whether the kick itself was Karate or a Taekwondo but that it was not a TKDoin who exceuted it.

 

[Acronym]

The 'turning' of the foot (with the toes facing a little bit downwards) distinguishes the (Kukkiwon) Taekwondo sidekick from the Karate and ITF versions visually, but it is also based on the rotating 'corkscrew' effect that you also see in Taekwondo punches.

Yup. Also turning over the shoulder more in KKw, creating more pivot and thus room for acceleration. There's more power potential in KKW mechanics for a lot of these techniques but ITF deliveries are very prestine and power is only part of the equation.

 

[dvcochran]

KKW seems to kick with a different contact point than ITF. We don't turn over our foot that much.

No. A Side kick always uses the heel. It is shown in every example and used consistently in every school style of side kick I have ever seen; assuming it is being performed correctly.
There are variations that use different parts of the foot but they usually go by a slightly different name as well.
The mechanics getting to the strike may be taught differently but the strike is definitely done with the heel.

 

[Acronym]

I would also say that it's not "anti ITF" to turn the shoulder over more, in fact we may often go passed the textbook depending on the context.

But as far as textbook deliveries, ITF promotes cleaner recovery positions and torso placement wheras KKW has an emphasis on power.

 

[Steve]

Let's try again. Clearly you missed the point. We have a local middle eastern restaurant that bough a former Pizzeria . Chefs / cooks are Latino. They make middle eastern dishes and also Pizza in the original Pizza oven. So, you are saying that Pizza is not Italian? Point being that "saying one person or country can claim a certain kick or punch is like saying one person or country discovered fire or invented the wheel." I paraphrase - but do you know where that quote s from.

I really don't see how you can suggest that a pizza made in a middle eastern restaurant by latino chefs in america is italian. The inspiration for it may be italian, but that pizza sure ain't.

 

[Acronym]

Here's another difference between the two major Taekwondo.


Less pivot of the base foot in ITF for textbook dolyo chagi -=better form, less power