ukiltmybrutha
Yellow Belt
You like what from my list? Which list lol? I am getting tired too and it's only 2 pm but I only got 3 hrs of sleep last night.
I see what you are saying...you just don't understand why that combo is in place.
Best Martial Art to achieve my goal
- Thread starter ukiltmybrutha
- Start date
You like what from my list? Which list lol? I am getting tired too and it's only 2 pm but I only got 3 hrs of sleep last night.
I see what you are saying...you just don't understand why that combo is in place.
Xue Sheng
All weight is underside
You like what from my list? Which list lol? I am getting tired too and it's only 2 pm but I only got 3 hrs of sleep last night.
I like Muay Thai, BJJ, Hapkido and Judo
Exactly and it is 2:00 PM here too.
ukiltmybrutha
Yellow Belt
Xue Sheng
All weight is underside
Thanks for the explination and clearing that up, it helped. I saw Judo in the first post and Yudo later and I was not sure which one it was so I went for it and picked Judo and damn if I didn't pick the wrong one
.ukiltmybrutha
Yellow Belt
Thanks for the explination and clearing that up, it helped. I saw Judo in the first post and Yudo later and I was not sure which one it was so I went for it and picked Judo and damn if I didn't pick the wrong one
Ha ha, clearly not your fault! I wonder who would be responsible for that misundertanding.
Tensei85
Master Black Belt
Wow! A true MT contributor, that's alright sleep is for the weak anyways. Lol, just kidding.
ukiltmybrutha
Yellow Belt
Well all, I took a trial class on Friday. It was very interesting. The negatives of Chris said came it to play almost right away.
I found myself hunting between a Tae Kwon Do stance and a Hapkido stance.
The Tae Kwon Do stance that I am used to used closed fists. The Hapkido stance uses open hands.
My logical deduction without research leads me to believe that the closed hands in Tae Kwon Do are more for strikes and the open hands of Hapkido are more for throws.
I wonder what on earth I would do in a street fight based on this? I guess it could be good and bad depending on my view. I guess Chris is right and at even the most basic level (the stance) half of my training is wasted.
Well anyways, on to the class. The teacher was trying to teach me a basic throw and I just couldn't figure it out at all. It is hard looking at how someone else is doing things or even worse looking at someone who is across from me expecting to be able to understand what they are doing (only backwards).
He showed me plenty of times and I was completely confused. The other student who had been there says he has the same problem remember things (not sure if he was just telling me that to feel better or what though).
I really liked the moves though. They seem powerful and easy to use.
I am just worried about my ability to catch on. I learned tae kwon do when I was 14, but I am 34 now.
I am worried that I have a learning disability.
Anyways I took out a one month trial at this class.
I feel dissapointed in my inability to memorize hand movements.
I have learned to deal with much bigger things in my life but this is sort of stressing me out.
Any thoughts?
Thank you!
P.S. I also mounted the heavy bag that my wife bought me last year.
This is really helping me on my days off.
I found myself hunting between a Tae Kwon Do stance and a Hapkido stance.
The Tae Kwon Do stance that I am used to used closed fists. The Hapkido stance uses open hands.
My logical deduction without research leads me to believe that the closed hands in Tae Kwon Do are more for strikes and the open hands of Hapkido are more for throws.
I wonder what on earth I would do in a street fight based on this? I guess it could be good and bad depending on my view. I guess Chris is right and at even the most basic level (the stance) half of my training is wasted.
Well anyways, on to the class. The teacher was trying to teach me a basic throw and I just couldn't figure it out at all. It is hard looking at how someone else is doing things or even worse looking at someone who is across from me expecting to be able to understand what they are doing (only backwards).
He showed me plenty of times and I was completely confused. The other student who had been there says he has the same problem remember things (not sure if he was just telling me that to feel better or what though).
I really liked the moves though. They seem powerful and easy to use.
I am just worried about my ability to catch on. I learned tae kwon do when I was 14, but I am 34 now.
I am worried that I have a learning disability.
Anyways I took out a one month trial at this class.
I feel dissapointed in my inability to memorize hand movements.
I have learned to deal with much bigger things in my life but this is sort of stressing me out.
Any thoughts?
Thank you!
P.S. I also mounted the heavy bag that my wife bought me last year.
This is really helping me on my days off.
Chris Parker
Grandmaster
Hi ukiltmybrutha,
Well, you seem to like the more involved answers, so here we go...
So again, congratulations on taking this step, it's only up from here!
Well, you seem to like the more involved answers, so here we go...
Well all, I took a trial class on Friday. It was very interesting. The negatives of Chris said came it to play almost right away.
First off, congrats on going to a new class. Growth comes through new experiences, and just by seeking and attending a new type of experience (in this case, a previously untrained martial art) you have put yourself beyond many others. So well done there.
I found myself hunting between a Tae Kwon Do stance and a Hapkido stance.
The Tae Kwon Do stance that I am used to used closed fists. The Hapkido stance uses open hands.
My logical deduction without research leads me to believe that the closed hands in Tae Kwon Do are more for strikes and the open hands of Hapkido are more for throws.
As I have said, each martial art is not really defined by it's physical actions, as they are simply manifestations of the systems guiding philosophy. And the guiding philosophy of Tae Kwon Do and Hapkido are a bit different. In essence, Tae Kwon Do has a philosophy of physical fitness and competition, as this was it's origin. That manifests itself in a focus on techniques that demand a higher level of fitness and flexibility (high kicks, focus on kicking over hand strikes), as well as techniques that work well in a sparring/competition setting (which lends itself to fast combinations, and working out at a distance to enable the use of the kicking techniques favoured by the art).
Hapkido has a slightly different philosophy in that it is not so concerned with competition, but is actually (philosophically speaking) an attempted melding of various ranges and disciplines. To be honest, Hapkido has kind of a schizoid philosophy as a result, with it's classical-style techniques including a focus on grappling (including a large number of fine motor joint locks), and then having Tae Kwon Do-style kicking and striking which is the dominant type of technique used in their sparring. Ideally, Hapkido should make you a more well-rounded fighter, as there are no ranges that you will be unfamiliar with, but you will need to understand the schizoid nature of the system first, and realise that some aspects will have no use in any but certain situations (try a intricate wrist lock in a sparring competition, or utilising a combination of head-high kicks in a street fight and see what I mean).
Now, I'm going to get fairly brutal here and state that no matter what you hear, these are both very modern creations. Tae Kwon Do is based on Shotokan karate, and was developed in the 50's for the fitness and morale of the Korean Army by General Choi; Hapkido is based on a Korean interpretation of a variant of Daito Ryu, and various techniques from Tae Kwon Do, and probably dates from the late 50's/early 60's. Any claim to the more ancient art of Tae Kyon should be pretty well left alone. Tae Kyon in only known from old records, and died out a number of centuries ago. In fact, although Tae Kwon Do claims it as part of it's heritage [and by exension, Hapkido does as well], there is a gap of far too much time between them for there to be any real connection. There is probably almost no resemblance between the physical skills of Tae Kyon and Tae Kwon Do, and the only real similarity is the name, which was chosen purely because of it's resemblance to the older system of Tae Kyon. Okay, that's probably offended quite a few people, so I'll stop there.
This should help you see why, although they are both fairly recent Korean systems, you will find very major differences between the physical approach each take for themselves. Your assessment of the hand positions is quite accurate, Hapkido will allow for grabbing attacks, whereas Tae Kwon Do will not need to be concerned with such things.
I wonder what on earth I would do in a street fight based on this? I guess it could be good and bad depending on my view. I guess Chris is right and at even the most basic level (the stance) half of my training is wasted.
Actually, that is quite an easy one. You will do whatever you unconsciously believe to be the most powerful. Now, a common thing to hear and say is that what you do a thousand times is what will come out, and that certainly has quite a bit of truth to it, but it is based on the study of one form of movement rather than multiple, and that one form being believed powerful by your unconscious. Essentially, if you do 3 months of Karate when you are 7, watch many (many, many, many!) martial art films where the good guys always seem to use something that looks just like what you learnt so long ago, and then spend 10 years training in a completely different art (say, a classical Jujutsu system for instance) which doesn't look like those guys in the movies, then there is a very good chance that under the stress and pressure of a real violent encounter (where your survival instincts will bring to the fore whatever you believe will keep you safest) you will suddenly find youself in a karate stance from your childhood.
The fact is that you may know (consciously) that the Jujutsu is safer to use, as the attacker is too close to kick, but already in range to grab, but under the stress, you will not be operating under your conscious mind. So just because you "know" something, that can sometimes not be enough.
So how do you find out what you will do? Well, you could go out to the roughest area in your home town, start yelling abuse at the biggest guy there, imply homosexuality on his part in front of his girlfriend, suggest improper knowledge of his female family members (either on his part, or yours), and see what comes out as he tries to knock your teeth out. But that's not the safest thing in the world to do, particularly these days when a weapon could very likely be drawn on you. So a better way is to engage in a form of training known as "pressure-testing". This is a major part of the RBSD systems and tapes we were talking about earlier. In essence, rather than sparring as it is commonly known, pressure testing relies on a form of free form training where there are no set techniques, and no set attacks. Basically, one training partner attacks another, and the attacked partner responds with whatever they have in their arsenal.
Well anyways, on to the class. The teacher was trying to teach me a basic throw and I just couldn't figure it out at all. It is hard looking at how someone else is doing things or even worse looking at someone who is across from me expecting to be able to understand what they are doing (only backwards).
This is a very common thing, especially if you have prior experience in a different type of art (in this case, a purely striking art - Tae Kwon Do). The fact that you haven't physically trained it in a long time doesn't really matter, as each and every time you thought about fighting, or martial arts, or watched a fight scene in a movie or on a TV show, you went back in your mind to find what you could relate it to in your own personal experience, and re-lived your Tae Kwon Do training. Even if it was only fleeting, or even unconsciously, you went back and gave that old training footage in your head another screening (which reinforces the power of the training to your unconscious mind, by the way).
So you have now been presented with a different approach to a conflict situation, with a different power source, a different way of moving, a different range, and a very different set of tactics, all of which go against what you have previously "known" to be true about martial arts and violence. That coupled with the fact that, even with no prior experience, the first class of any art is always the most difficult, resulting in more confusion and feelings of uncoordination than at any other point in your study. Put simply, you will never feel worse than your first class.
My advice is to be patient with yourself. Take your techniques slower in order to get the movements correct first, and if your instructor is not showing in a way that you can see what is going on, ask if you can see it from another angle. That should be fairly easy for the instructor to accomadate.
He showed me plenty of times and I was completely confused. The other student who had been there says he has the same problem remember things (not sure if he was just telling me that to feel better or what though).
See above. And remember, it's not your mind that needs to remember these movements, so don't get too stressed about not mentally remembering what to do. Just break the movements down into their different components (right hand grabs here and pulls in this direction; left hand grabs here and pushes this way; feet go here; body turns this way; hips go back and up etc). This can help make complex movements easier to learn.
I really liked the moves though. They seem powerful and easy to use.
Good. You have probably found your match in the martial arts in terms of personality (which is really the only criteria when choosing something based on the art itself. The whole thing about "Which is the most effective for this or that" pales in comparisson. I have had students who want to get really good at street defence and then hate the RBSD-style approach which is actually the best thing for their claimed goals, which is simply a personality clash between the student and system, or in this case, a training approach to a systems)
I am just worried about my ability to catch on. I learned tae kwon do when I was 14, but I am 34 now.
I'm not going to say that age is not a factor here. The old Catholic saying is "Give me a boy until he's 7, and he's mine for life", and that has a lot of merit. If you talk to psychologists, they will tell you that the vast majority of core beliefs and values are set in a person by the time they are 7, with the remaining values being finally set by the age of about 16. What this means is that no matter how old you may be chronologically, at heart you are most often 7 at the oldest (often younger, depending on the age you were when the core value or belief being addressed was set). For certain values and beliefs that are not set due to no guiding experiences by 7 will be set by 16, rounding out what is refered to as your personality. The only things that will chage them after that are either therapy or a traumatic experience. If you ever hear someone talking about a "life changing experience", usually a car accident or similar, that is a traumatic experience.
Therapy can take longer, but is a safer way of generating a traumatic experience by moving you out from your beliefs and values in order to expose the limits that they give you. There are various forms of this, and the Martial Arts can be one. As you continue to experience your new art, you will come up against things that challenge your previous beliefs and values about martial arts, conflict, violence etc, and that will either be traumatic (in my old Tae Kwon Do days, [I was about the same age you were, actually], I leant into my side-kicks. Then, sparring with a senior Black Belt 3 minutes in to a class, I opened with a side kick, at which point his fist smashed into my nose. He pulled just whort of breaking it, but it didn't stop bleeding until the end of the class. I never leant into a side kick again, though...), or therapeutic (gradually learning the new form of power, and allowing yourself to accept it as superior [for you and your personality]). The main difference between traumatic and therapeutic is the time-frame in which they work, by the way.
I am worried that I have a learning disability.
No, just some beliefs that need adjusting. See above. If you had a learning disability, I believe you would have been made aware of it long before now (at school perhaps? You certainly seem educated enough to be able to engage in a literate discussion on a computer, so that's a pointer in a good direction...)
Anyways I took out a one month trial at this class.
Good. To truly ingrain any new skill, we utlise a 30-day training program. Without getting too much into the details, the training program must be followed each and every day for the 30 days without fail. If you miss a day, you start again. The thinking behind this is two-fold. First, a 30 day training program is actually traditional in my system, and is known as a Ki Development Program. There are many stories in the Japanese martial arts of a particular martial artist going off by themselves and training alone for 30 days or longer, and then having a "revelation" (or sometimes, a visit by a deity, which is really the same thing if you think about it), marking the beginning of a new system. Look to arts such as Shindo Muso Ryu Jojutsu, where Muso Gonnosuke had had a friendly match with Musashi Miyamoto (Muso had a 6 foot Bo, Musashi had his two bokken), which Muso lost, he just couldn't get past Musashi's X-Block. He then went off and trained/meditated alone for 30 days (some have a listing of 48 or 60 days, but it is always 30 or more), in which he had a vision giving him the dimentions for a shorter, lighter stick weapon, which he called a Jo. He then went back to Musashi for a rematch with his new Jo, and gave Musashi the only defeat of his illustrious career.
The other reason is again to do with training your unconscious mind. There have been various studies which show that people who perform the same activity for 30 or more days will have actually re-wired the synapses in their brain, hardwiring new habits/actions/beliefs/values. This is why dry-out facilites and re-hab programs are based on thirty days as well (if that ever seemed like a very short time to get over an addiction to you, this is why they do it that way).
I feel dissapointed in my inability to memorize hand movements.
After one lesson? Relax, give it time. And the more you stress about it, the more pressure you put on yourself to "get it right", the longer it's going to take, I promise you that.
I have learned to deal with much bigger things in my life but this is sort of stressing me out.
Any thoughts?
Yeah, you're just putting too much pressure on it at this point. The first thing you should be doing is enjoying it, then you can worry about the rest. But if you don't enjoy it, the rest just won't be there.
Thank you!
P.S. I also mounted the heavy bag that my wife bought me last year.
This is really helping me on my days off.
Great! Get a list of a few kicks, strikes, and entering movements for throws, and you have the start of a fantastic thrity-day program that you can do every day. And by a few, I really mean that. 2 kicks, 2 or 3 hand strikes, maybe 2 entering actions (one facing forward, one where you turn your back), and that is all. A training program using those can be done in 15 minutes to half an hour, say 5 - 10 of each movement on each side, just making sure to warm up properly first, and you will start to make huge improvements!
So again, congratulations on taking this step, it's only up from here!
DergaSmash
Yellow Belt
I'm going to go out on a limb here...
My 2 cents:
You said you're only interested in self defense in a street situation. Is there a Krav Maga school near you? Thats really all Krav Maga is. The school I trained at in San Antonio was very intense and did a lot of realistic situational training. I think that might be more what you're looking for.
My 2 cents:
You said you're only interested in self defense in a street situation. Is there a Krav Maga school near you? Thats really all Krav Maga is. The school I trained at in San Antonio was very intense and did a lot of realistic situational training. I think that might be more what you're looking for.
ukiltmybrutha
Yellow Belt
Once again I am speechless, but it won't be long before the big mouth starts to open!
Thank you all so far!
Thank you all so far!
ukiltmybrutha
Yellow Belt
Alrighty then! Thank you all for filling me in. I guess things are becoming a little bit more clear for me.
I have been wondering about the Krav Maga classes myself. So I checked and there are none in my area.
I checked many a web page on Krav Maga vs. Hapkido and while there was really a huge disparity in opinions, I came to the same conclusion that Chris did. Hapkido will take me plenty of time to learn whereas Krav Maga could be learned quickly.
I will probably stick with the Hapkido because of the conditioning factor. Although Chris advised that there are better ways. With Hapkido alone, I will get better conditioned over time (although that will also take time).
I am really not in a rush. I have some video tapes to watch and a punching bag to punch!
I would try to quote some of the quotes here and respond to them, but from what I can see...I can't quote quotes that were responses to other quotes.
At this point I am close to where I need to be even if I switch schools or arts/fighting techniques.
Thanks all I feel better in my decision and/or decision making process because of you guys!
I have been wondering about the Krav Maga classes myself. So I checked and there are none in my area.
I checked many a web page on Krav Maga vs. Hapkido and while there was really a huge disparity in opinions, I came to the same conclusion that Chris did. Hapkido will take me plenty of time to learn whereas Krav Maga could be learned quickly.
I will probably stick with the Hapkido because of the conditioning factor. Although Chris advised that there are better ways. With Hapkido alone, I will get better conditioned over time (although that will also take time).
I am really not in a rush. I have some video tapes to watch and a punching bag to punch!
I would try to quote some of the quotes here and respond to them, but from what I can see...I can't quote quotes that were responses to other quotes.
At this point I am close to where I need to be even if I switch schools or arts/fighting techniques.
Thanks all I feel better in my decision and/or decision making process because of you guys!
Chris Parker
Grandmaster
I'll keep this one short... well, short for me, anyway.
Krav Maga will give similar drills and adrenaline training to RBSD systems (which you will find in the tapes and DVDs mentioned earlier), so it is a very good choice from that perspective... however, there are a few issues.
The main one is again down to the basic philosophy of the art, which owe their characteristics to it's origin. Krav Maga began as a system for the Israeli Army, who are in a very violent situation where they face real violence daily, so they need something to handle that. But remember that it is designed for the military.
The military have very different requirements and expectations to regular civilian needs. The military are seen to be the "enforcers", so they are expected to go into danger, not retreat (unless ordered to), and have a range of force options available. Civilian self defence, on the other hand, is very different. You are required to escape as soon as possible, to not go into danger without due cause (avoidance is given as a first requirement/option), and have issues of relative/appropriate force. A number of the tactics offered by Military/Police/Security origin schools are simply inappropriate for genuine self defence. They limit your options where escape and avoidance are involved, and often give overkill as physical options, which, although they help you survive a violent assault, can leave you very open to various legal repercussions, such as assault or aggrevated assault charges, which can land you in jail for a number of years... not something a lot of martial art instructors take in to account, to be honest.
Aside from that, the most important thing right now is that you have chosen a school, now you just need to stick with it, and don't worry too much about what everyone else is doing. Just follow your schools teachings, and enjoy yourself!
Krav Maga will give similar drills and adrenaline training to RBSD systems (which you will find in the tapes and DVDs mentioned earlier), so it is a very good choice from that perspective... however, there are a few issues.
The main one is again down to the basic philosophy of the art, which owe their characteristics to it's origin. Krav Maga began as a system for the Israeli Army, who are in a very violent situation where they face real violence daily, so they need something to handle that. But remember that it is designed for the military.
The military have very different requirements and expectations to regular civilian needs. The military are seen to be the "enforcers", so they are expected to go into danger, not retreat (unless ordered to), and have a range of force options available. Civilian self defence, on the other hand, is very different. You are required to escape as soon as possible, to not go into danger without due cause (avoidance is given as a first requirement/option), and have issues of relative/appropriate force. A number of the tactics offered by Military/Police/Security origin schools are simply inappropriate for genuine self defence. They limit your options where escape and avoidance are involved, and often give overkill as physical options, which, although they help you survive a violent assault, can leave you very open to various legal repercussions, such as assault or aggrevated assault charges, which can land you in jail for a number of years... not something a lot of martial art instructors take in to account, to be honest.
Aside from that, the most important thing right now is that you have chosen a school, now you just need to stick with it, and don't worry too much about what everyone else is doing. Just follow your schools teachings, and enjoy yourself!
ukiltmybrutha
Yellow Belt
Chris,
I will do this! I believe that am exactly where I need to be. I couldn't have come to this conclusion without your patience and assistance as well as that of the others here.
Time to start posting in the Hapkido forum haha!
Thank you!
I will do this! I believe that am exactly where I need to be. I couldn't have come to this conclusion without your patience and assistance as well as that of the others here.
Time to start posting in the Hapkido forum haha!
Thank you!
Gaius Julius Caesar
Black Belt
Go with whatever you want but there is something I don't get here.
I understand a combinations Muay Thai and BJJ (thought of it myself from time to time) and I would understand a combination of Taekwondo and Judo and I have said to people that I always felt a combination of Wing Chun and Judo (Shuaijiao would be better :EG
A good friend of mine and fellow Jujutsuka is an instructor in Wing Chun and is a Nidan in Judo, as well as a Shodan in our style of Jujutsu.
The Wing Chun is a nice element because it;s more linear than Judo, they compliment each other better than many would think, when Judo gets jammed, he nails you with a punch, when you jam his punch, you get a sweep.
