Belt Testing advice

[Jenna]

Hi, I'm new to this forum but need to reach out to the community for advice. My spouse any myself as well as out 7 year old practice Karate in a traditional Japanese dojo.
The 7 year old has been at the school for 2 years and only moved up one belt rank in that time. So from white, to yellow, and it took him 8 months, which is long for that stage. It's been a full year ( and 4 testing cycles) since that last test and going to class 2x per week consistently. All his peers passed him up, so he is now at the level of students who began training after him. He has not been invited to test but the other children in his group have. I am NOT one of those parents who thinks my child is perfect, as a practitioner myself I see where he needs to be better, and these kids are at the same level, one even being slightly behind the group in technique but still invited to test.
I broke etiquette and asked one of the directors (there are 5) "what's holding him back? I'm concerned because it's been a full year." This black belt didn't know and said he'd ask the board (who votes on who tests) and get back to me. I'm afraid I will be given a blanket answer of "he's just not ready!" but there seems to be a personal reason behind this since my son has been doing the test techniques every day for a year.

Any way I'm looking for feedback, and opinions. My spouse and other parents and I are baffled why he's being intentionally excluded.

I can imagine why you might be feeling in the dark about what is going on with that.. I do not think it uncommon unfortunately.. Good you have posted! Maybe there is advice herein for others in same place as you also Can I ask please, what make you think there seem to be a personal reason maybe as opposed to oversight or miscommunication? Some thing you intuit or have pick up or? Sending all wishes to you for it work out in the nicest and fairest way xo

 

[Midnight-shadow]

Not to sound the wrong way, but do you have any training in karate? Do you know what they're looking for?

On the surface and to the untrained eye it could appear that he's doing what he's supposed to. It could appear to be the same thing as everyone else is doing. But to a trained eye it could be that he's not executing things properly. Or that he's got the basics against no resistance down but isn't able to apply them.

I'm quite sure there's something they're seeing that you're not, otherwise there wouldn't be an issue. Again, ask the CI in private at a mutually agreeable time.

I get this kind of situation a lot in my work as a swimming teacher. There have been times where a parent has come up to me asking why their child hasn't moved up, and more often than not it comes down to technique. Their child might be able to swim a longer distance or swim faster than the other kids, but I won't move them up until they get the technique right. That said, if parents ask me about their child's technique then I will happily tell them, so hopefully they will do the same for the OP. If they don't then I would think something was up.

Also, you need to think about consistency of the technique. There is no point in being able to do the technique correctly once in 10 attempts, or being able to do the technique only when the instructor tells you exactly what to do. Teachers are looking for consistency which is why I require my students to perform a skill correctly 3 times in a row before I will pass them on it.

 

[Midnight-shadow]

I'm amazed your child is still willing to stick it out. I can't see myself holding back a kid that long, especially at a beginner rank, except under extraordinarily circumstances, and I'm not even sure what those circumstances would be.

I've held students back before due to maturity and behaviour issues, as a matter of safety. If a kid is constantly messing around in the shallow water there is no way in hell I am letting them go up into the next group in deeper water no matter how good their swimming is.

 

[Jaeimseu]

I've held students back before due to maturity and behaviour issues, as a matter of safety. If a kid is constantly messing around in the shallow water there is no way in hell I am letting them go up into the next group in deeper water no matter how good their swimming is.

I agree. I simply have never run into discipline issues that serious at the dojang or in my classroom (knock on wood).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I'm going to perhaps go against the grain here...

I honestly feel like you deserve more of an answer than "he's not ready yet." What (relatively) specifically does he need to work on? What can you do to help him improve? What is their assessment criteria?

I'm a school teacher. I know it's not an apples to apples comparison, but there's some crossover (or at least should be) - I'd never suggest holding a student back and simply say "he's not ready yet" and walk away. Forget educational laws and regulations, I feel personally obligated to tell the parents what their kid's strengths and weaknesses are, and how they can help their kid improve whenever asked.

You're obviously confused and frustrated by this. Completely understandable. And even more understandable for your son to be. My advice is make an appointment with the chief instructor/owner and ask him/her what's going on professionally and politely. And in private. You are a paying customer and you're entitled to a professional explanation.

None of that means you're entitled to the answer you want to hear, nor should you have the "I pay your salary" mentality. It just means you deserve an honest answer. You can either accept the answer and follow whatever is recommended, or you can leave and look for another place. But you can't make the rules.

My dojo has the rule of don't ask to promote too. But that doesn't mean I can't ask my teacher what I need to work on. If I couldn't ask my teacher what he thinks I need to do to get better, I'd find another teacher. If I regularly wasn't invited to test, I'd ask him privately what I need to do to move forward. If he didn't want to answer that, I'd leave.

But remember, there's a way to ask. Don't come off as a jerk and you deserve the CI's honest assessment.

I agree with this. You (in proxy for your 7-year-old) should be given some guidance as to why he isn't being invited to test. I'm not at all a fan of the "etiquette" that discourages asking that question. I don't mind if a student asks about their next belt right after getting one, so long as they don't mind that they'll still have a year or two more to get there.

So, don't worry about "he's not ready" unless and until that's all you're told. If you get no more, you should go to the chief instructor and ask for some advice and clarification.

 

[KenpoMaster805]

Well for me a 7 year old should take his time because his just a kid you know and you dont wanna preasure the kid if his not ready then his not ready but eventually his gonna be ready all he needs is practice practice practice makes perfect and make sure you practice like 45 min to an hour with your technique basics or forms traditional karate like shotokan kyukushin is hard it takes hard work to practice it and its ok if he doesnt take the test with the other kids just take your time but make your you practice your tech atleast 3 times so you will know were you made a mistake and correct it. some are fast learner and some are slow and take their time like i do i shoulda been a 2nd degree brown by june but i wasnt ready so im taking my test in december that way i can sharpned by technique basic and forms so no need to hurry

 

[CB Jones]

I agree that they should be able to provide specifics on what he needs to correct to be allowed to test.

 

[jks9199]

It doesn't have to be a formal meeting with "the grade books out" or anything like that. But asking him why your son isn't testing in front of other parents, students, and/or when he's getting ready to start class isn't going to get you the answers you deserve. And it puts the teacher in an odd spot. Asking when there's a good time to privately discuss your son's progress is the way to go IMO. If he doesn't give you the time of day, that's cause for concern.

Very good point. Don't ask in a way that puts him on the spot. Use an email or phone call or set up an appointment.

 

[JR 137]

I agree with this. You (in proxy for your 7-year-old) should be given some guidance as to why he isn't being invited to test. I'm not at all a fan of the "etiquette" that discourages asking that question. I don't mind if a student asks about their next belt right after getting one, so long as they don't mind that they'll still have a year or two more to get there.

So, don't worry about "he's not ready" unless and until that's all you're told. If you get no more, you should go to the chief instructor and ask for some advice and clarification.

The etiquette at my school is don't ask to promote. You'll be invited to promote when the CI feels you're ready.

I like it. It discourages the race to promote mentality, keeps people from hounding the CI, etc. But there's a downside to everything. People may not feel comfortable asking why they're not invited to test when they've met the attendance requirements and they think they're skilled enough to promote. It can be awkward asking why and trying not to come off as asking to promote. And the CI may feel the student's pushing for an undeserved promotion. It's a balancing act.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

The etiquette at my school is don't ask to promote. You'll be invited to promote when the CI feels you're ready.

I like it. It discourages the race to promote mentality, keeps people from hounding the CI, etc. But there's a downside to everything. People may not feel comfortable asking why they're not invited to test when they've met the attendance requirements and they think they're skilled enough to promote. It can be awkward asking why and trying not to come off as asking to promote. And the CI may feel the student's pushing for an undeserved promotion. It's a balancing act.

I don't mind the not asking to promote, though it's not what I came up in - we had to ask. I've gone the other way - I test them when I'm ready to test them, more like what you're talking about. If they ask to test, that won't affect timing one way or the other. But I have known instructors who didn't like students asking why they weren't invited to test. I consider that a valid question from a conscientious student who wants to meet expectations, and simply doesn't know which ones they aren't yet meeting.

 

[drop bear]

Fot us we only test in the BJJ. and nobody really cares as everyone knows who is better than who anyway.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Fot us we only test in the BJJ. and nobody really cares as everyone knows who is better than who anyway.

Looking back, I was a bit over-conscious of rank for most of my training (personal insecurity), but most of the people I trained with were more like you describe. They tested, but knew who was better, regardless of rank.

 

[symme]

You definitely wanna keep encouraging him since he's demonstrating a lot of determination. Kids can be easily demotivated and seeing peers progress faster is always difficult.

Your instructor however should absolutely be able to give you a good explanation as to what your son is lacking, and as you've said you're a practitioner yourself and can even to the best of your abilities help your son to improve.
That being said it is in the interest of the martial art school to keep their students so it is more likely that he truly isn't ready and you cannot see the flaws as clearly as the instructors. If it took him eight months to go to yellow belt then this time frame for the next grading doesn't sound all that unreasonable either.

 

[Tez3]

Parents helping can be a double edged sword, I knew father who had done Shotokan when he was in university about, he was in his late thirties, he was trying to help his son with his training but was doing what he remembered from Shotokan, we were doing Wado Ryu, different stances, different ways of doing strikes and kicks, different way of doing kata. The problem was they were similar enough to the father that he didn't think it mattered but they weren't correct by our style so the poor kid constantly had his long stances corrected to the shorter ones we did etc. Frustrating for the child and us.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Parents helping can be a double edged sword, I knew father who had done Shotokan when he was in university about, he was in his late thirties, he was trying to help his son with his training but was doing what he remembered from Shotokan, we were doing Wado Ryu, different stances, different ways of doing strikes and kicks, different way of doing kata. The problem was they were similar enough to the father that he didn't think it mattered but they weren't correct by our style so the poor kid constantly had his long stances corrected to the shorter ones we did etc. Frustrating for the child and us.

This can be an issue even if they are from the same style. Often, with a lack of experience or too much time since their own training, they have imperfect or even incorrect understanding of structure and principle. And so they get focused on the wrong thing. I've seen returning students (who were previously of rank to be "student teachers") teach structure improperly to newer students, getting them into a rigid structure we don't use.

 

[kuniggety]

Looking back, I was a bit over-conscious of rank for most of my training (personal insecurity), but most of the people I trained with were more like you describe. They tested, but knew who was better, regardless of rank.

I think what helps in BJJ is that, while a blue belt might be gunning for purple, they don't want to be the purple belt that's getting thrown around by all of the blue belts.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I think what helps in BJJ is that, while a blue belt might be gunning for purple, they don't want to be the purple belt that's getting thrown around by all of the blue belts.

That was never me. I was overly conscious of others' rank, because I chose to progress slowly. I would have been the blue belt who could hang with the purples on a regular basis, but didn't test (not at those same colors - but the concept applies).

 

[kuniggety]

That was never me. I was overly conscious of others' rank, because I chose to progress slowly. I would have been the blue belt who could hang with the purples on a regular basis, but didn't test (not at those same colors - but the concept applies).

I'm a bit of the same way. I didn't even want to be promoted to blue/felt I was ready until I was actually hanging with the blue belts. Now I'm at a point that I think I'm a decent blue but still don't feel nearly on the same wavelength as a purple yet and have absolutely no desire to be promoted until I do.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I'm a bit of the same way. I didn't even want to be promoted to blue/felt I was ready until I was actually hanging with the blue belts. Now I'm at a point that I think I'm a decent blue but still don't feel nearly on the same wavelength as a purple yet and have absolutely no desire to be promoted until I do.

I tended to go overboard with it. It sounds like I was being conscientious, but I was actually being insecure.

 

[Headhunter]

Parents helping can be a double edged sword, I knew father who had done Shotokan when he was in university about, he was in his late thirties, he was trying to help his son with his training but was doing what he remembered from Shotokan, we were doing Wado Ryu, different stances, different ways of doing strikes and kicks, different way of doing kata. The problem was they were similar enough to the father that he didn't think it mattered but they weren't correct by our style so the poor kid constantly had his long stances corrected to the shorter ones we did etc. Frustrating for the child and us.

Personsally I don't parents should have anything to do with their child's training if they've got past experience unless that experience is with the same club the kids at otherwise it's just a waste of time. No ones wrong or right things are just different. I know when my kid started kenpo at a school where I'd never trained and I saw differences but I never said anything because it's simply not my place