Belt rankings in kicboxing

[Kickboxer101]

So in my kickboxing club there is a belt ranking system. I know a lot of people say there's no belts in kickboxing but well there is in mine and the thing with it is they're not a big deal like there are belt promotion specific lessons but you don't have to learn a set list just show reasonable standard for that level on the pads and higher up with your sparring. But obviously when you get them no one ever wears them because well in kickboxing you just wear workout stuff and not a gi but it's a nice thing to achieve and a sense of achievement for those who don't want to compete.

I also like how there's no egos based on belts. Like honestly I couldn't tell you what belt anyone in my club is because it's simply not important your not split into groups based on it everyone works with everyone so there's no ego based on that. I mean everyone pretty much knows who the better ones are but it's still all equal and yeah of course it's a commercial thing as well to make money but that's not always a bad thing either I mean the schools need to make money to stay open.

Just wondering if anyone else here has belt rankings in kickboxing gyms.

 

[drop bear]

I have done one or two that did singlets.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

I actually have a black belt in a kickboxing system. I don't take it too seriously, given that I only fought in the ring a couple of times and the guy who awarded my rank no longer runs a gym or promotes the art as a separate system. On those occasions where I get roped into covering a kickboxing class for one of the other instructors at my gym, I just wear Thai shorts and a t-shirt.

 

[KangTsai]

My MMA place. Nobody really takes it seriously, but, what worries me is that my instructor has an "MMA black belt" under his qualifications, which seems... Not right.

 

[Tez3]

My MMA place. Nobody really takes it seriously, but, what worries me is that my instructor has an "MMA black belt" under his qualifications, which seems... Not right.

Oh no that certainly isn't right! Perhaps you should find somewhere else to train.

 

[KangTsai]

Oh no that certainly isn't right! Perhaps you should find somewhere else to train.

No no no, the instructor does have a professional MMA record and all his fellows as well and comes from a respectable background which I have 100℅ proof of: the BJJ coach also has relations with a Gracie. I just think the "MMA belt" thing is a bit weird to put on a profile where you're trying to sell classes.

[EDIT] Let's hope he doesn't see this,
The head of the beginner's is Logan Price
Assistant is Jesse Harrison

Search for them and fights will show up.

 

[Tez3]

Have you checked his Pro record because all Sherdog has is an ammy one. Logan Price MMA Stats, Pictures, News, Videos, Biography - Sherdog.com

 

[Gerry Seymour]

My MMA place. Nobody really takes it seriously, but, what worries me is that my instructor has an "MMA black belt" under his qualifications, which seems... Not right.

In other threads, some folks have pointed out that some MMA gyms are putting together complete systems, including some ranking with belts. It seems an odd addition, to me, given the nature of the training. However, I see nothing wrong with it. If he was awarded a black belt by someone who does so in a gym he trained at, then it's as legitimate as a black belt in a TMA - which is to say that it matters only as much as someone thinks it does.

 

[Kickboxer101]

No no no, the instructor does have a professional MMA record and all his fellows as well and comes from a respectable background which I have 100℅ proof of: the BJJ coach also has relations with a Gracie. I just think the "MMA belt" thing is a bit weird to put on a profile where you're trying to sell classes.

[EDIT] Let's hope he doesn't see this,
The head of the beginner's is Logan Price
Assistant is Jesse Harrison

Search for them and fights will show up.

May not be the best idea to put instructors names on here it's happened before things posted here get back to instructors just a a bit of advice

 

[Tez3]

In other threads, some folks have pointed out that some MMA gyms are putting together complete systems, including some ranking with belts. It seems an odd addition, to me, given the nature of the training. However, I see nothing wrong with it. If he was awarded a black belt by someone who does so in a gym he trained at, then it's as legitimate as a black belt in a TMA - which is to say that it matters only as much as someone thinks it does.

The problem though with saying you have an MMA black belt is that no one in the professional MMA world will take you seriously, mostly because they pride themselves on not having a belt system lol. For most the fights are the things that matter and while there are plenty who train MMA without competing, the idea that there's a syllabus and a ranking system goes completely against the grain. Fight training should be individually tailored once you have got beyond the basics so the idea of following a syllabus is redundant.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

The problem though with saying you have an MMA black belt is that no one in the professional MMA world will take you seriously, mostly because they pride themselves on not having a belt system lol. For most the fights are the things that matter and while there are plenty who train MMA without competing, the idea that there's a syllabus and a ranking system goes completely against the grain. Fight training should be individually tailored once you have got beyond the basics so the idea of following a syllabus is redundant.

I agree; that's why I said it seems odd to me. However, the same reaction would happen if someone branched from a ryu (an actual ryu) that had never used ranks to create a new style, and they decided to start using colored belts to match the expectations of students in their area. People from that ryu and those familiar with it would probaly not take those ranks so seriously, but there would be nothing wrong with them (aside, of course, from the split that might damage the ryu's historical consistency). They would serve their purpose no better nor worse for being an oddity in that branch of martial arts. Belts only matter, really, for a few purposes, including making it easy for students to quickly figure out where someone is in the curriculum, providing some comparabilty between schools of the same style and association, and serving the market that expects them.

 

[Kickboxer101]

I agree; that's why I said it seems odd to me. However, the same reaction would happen if someone branched from a ryu (an actual ryu) that had never used ranks to create a new style, and they decided to start using colored belts to match the expectations of students in their area. People from that ryu and those familiar with it would probaly not take those ranks so seriously, but there would be nothing wrong with them (aside, of course, from the split that might damage the ryu's historical consistency). They would serve their purpose no better nor worse for being an oddity in that branch of martial arts. Belts only matter, really, for a few purposes, including making it easy for students to quickly figure out where someone is in the curriculum, providing some comparabilty between schools of the same style and association, and serving the market that expects them.

Like I said in my original post I think belt ranks are a good idea for things like mma, kickboxing etc because if someone doesn't want to compete then they can go into the belt program and can still set goals to achieve without having to step in the ring which a lot of people won't want to do. That way you'll get more interest in the style.

 

[drop bear]

Like I said in my original post I think belt ranks are a good idea for things like mma, kickboxing etc because if someone doesn't want to compete then they can go into the belt program and can still set goals to achieve without having to step in the ring which a lot of people won't want to do. That way you'll get more interest in the style.

Gives them something to work towards.

 

[drop bear]

Hammers gym is one example of a reputable kickboxing that does rankings.

 

[Tez3]

Like I said in my original post I think belt ranks are a good idea for things like mma, kickboxing etc because if someone doesn't want to compete then they can go into the belt program and can still set goals to achieve without having to step in the ring which a lot of people won't want to do. That way you'll get more interest in the style.

There should be no syllabus for MMA so grading isn't possible, MMA is about the individual. If people can only set goals by doing a system with belts then they should stick to something other than MMA. I know many people who very happily train MMA without wanting either to compete or grade.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

There should be no syllabus for MMA so grading isn't possible, MMA is about the individual. If people can only set goals by doing a system with belts then they should stick to something other than MMA. I know many people who very happily train MMA without wanting either to compete or grade.

I'm curious, why is a specific curriculum for training contrary to MMA?

 

[Tez3]

I'm curious, why is a specific curriculum for training contrary to MMA?

Take karate for example, a grading will consist of specific techniques that everyone will do to a certain standard ( hopefully!) the roundhouse kick will be the same for everyone done according to how you are taught. A block will be done the same way by all the class. There is no deviation because a shorter student finds it easier to do the technique a different way or it's more efficient for a taller person to change how they do a technique. You have to do all the techniques and drills all exactly the same. In MMA you find the best techniques that work for you, you tweak them to suit you, you don't bother with other techniques because for you they aren't productive, it's very individual so how do you teach a whole class on a syllabus how to do that? You coach individual fighters, find their strengths, tighten up holes and work towards being an all round good fighter, very hard to do that in a class situation and for everyone to do the same so that you can grade them. You could not bother with a curriculum and gradings so just grade on fights but would you only count winning fights or the points scored? That would also leave out those who wanted just to train not to fight. Boxing doesn't have a curriculum and doesn't have gradings, there's no reason for MMA to have either.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Take karate for example, a grading will consist of specific techniques that everyone will do to a certain standard ( hopefully!) the roundhouse kick will be the same for everyone done according to how you are taught. A block will be done the same way by all the class. There is no deviation because a shorter student finds it easier to do the technique a different way or it's more efficient for a taller person to change how they do a technique. You have to do all the techniques and drills all exactly the same. In MMA you find the best techniques that work for you, you tweak them to suit you, you don't bother with other techniques because for you they aren't productive, it's very individual so how do you teach a whole class on a syllabus how to do that? You coach individual fighters, find their strengths, tighten up holes and work towards being an all round good fighter, very hard to do that in a class situation and for everyone to do the same so that you can grade them. You could not bother with a curriculum and gradings so just grade on fights but would you only count winning fights or the points scored? That would also leave out those who wanted just to train not to fight. Boxing doesn't have a curriculum and doesn't have gradings, there's no reason for MMA to have either.

Not all TMAs are as rigid as your example, though. When I teach a technique, I also teach the modifications that would be necessary to adapt to different heights, for example. When I test them, it is up to the student to demonstrate the technique in a way that is appropriate to them and their partner, so a very tall person using my wife (under 5' tall) as a parter for a test would have to shorten their steps and change some stances, at the very least. And while students are expected to be able to demonstrate all of the techniques in part of the testing, in the self-defense testing they are entirely on their own for technique selection.

If someone were practicing MMA for non-competition, it seems the situation would seem to be much the same. An instructor could teach a structured syllabus, so students could learn all the techniuqes and select those that best fit them once they understand them well enough to choose. And those choices often change as people progress in their understanding and ability. That would work well enough with a tiered testing and promotion program.

 

[Tez3]

Not all TMAs are as rigid as your example, though. When I teach a technique, I also teach the modifications that would be necessary to adapt to different heights, for example. When I test them, it is up to the student to demonstrate the technique in a way that is appropriate to them and their partner, so a very tall person using my wife (under 5' tall) as a parter for a test would have to shorten their steps and change some stances, at the very least. And while students are expected to be able to demonstrate all of the techniques in part of the testing, in the self-defense testing they are entirely on their own for technique selection.

If someone were practicing MMA for non-competition, it seems the situation would seem to be much the same. An instructor could teach a structured syllabus, so students could learn all the techniuqes and select those that best fit them once they understand them well enough to choose. And those choices often change as people progress in their understanding and ability. That would work well enough with a tiered testing and promotion program.

True enough but why would we grade just because we could? We don't need to unless people want to earn themselves more money. The system isn't broke so why fix it?

 

[Kickboxer101]

True enough but why would we grade just because we could? We don't need to unless people want to earn themselves more money. The system isn't broke so why fix it?

There didnt use to be belts in karate when it first started now there is. Martial arts are changing all the time maybe one day mma black belts will be a common thing. Mma itself did a lot to change martial arts conceptions so you can't say if it isn't broke don't fix it because if people had stuck with that attitude martial arts would never evolve