'Beliefs' in martial arts.

[Daniel Sullivan]

If you're implying that this topic comes up over and over again, most people that are members of public forums haven't 'been there' from the very beginning.

This thread is about 'beliefs' in martial arts wether they be supernatural or just not based on evidence. Is there anything in your style,, or any other style for that matter that you'd like to share?

Plus this is the 'general' section of MT, so everything posted here concerns martial arts in a 'general sense'. You don't have to be interested in this topic, but I am. For example, because of my superficial understanding Greco Roman wrestling's history, I thought there was an ancient origin ( probably because of its name). That assumption was incorrect.
I find it useful to have a specific thread where beliefs in martial arts in a general sense can be brought out to the open.

However, if a 'general' thread like this already exists, can someone provide a link please?

Not sure it it exists as a general thread, but most all, if not all of what is being discussed in this thread has been discussed in more specialized threads. There are several, for example, about ki, the 2000 year old taekwondo (a new one popped up this week in the TKD section), no touch knock outs, and the ever popular MMA vs. TMA.

But I'm enjoying this thread, so there you are.

Daniel

 

[Xue Sheng]

Hehehe. Love that movie.

There's a user on youtube that posts short videos that go over basic scientific misconceptions that are popular.
you know stuff like -The north star is the brightest in the night sky (type stuff)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rLevesJi0Q&feature=channel_video_title

There are a lot of things that are misunderstood and I was hoping to find a specific thread that could go through tons of misconceptions without having to study something in depth. I know this information may exist in more specialized threads, but not everyone has time to go to each one. Couldn't find one so I made one. I only see it as being beneficial to educate the ma community in general just to minimize the silly things that are often believed.

Much of the martial arts community think things like
-All CMA comes from Shaolin
-Taijiquan/Capoeira/etc. are not martial arts
-99% of fights do to the ground
-MMA is the most accurate representation of fighting
blah blah blah


I'm surprised to hear that there's another thread that goes through a bunch of myths in this manner. If you guys can remember what the topic might have been called(so I can search for it), could u respond?

Search "Pressure Testing"

Search any of the "Martial Arts A vs Martial Arts B" threads.

Search for specifically what you are looking for.

There have been a few about All CMA coming from Shaolin AND loads of MMA rules all others drool threads.... mostly started by couch MMAists. And there has been the ocassional TMA rules MMA drools thread as well.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

If you're implying that this topic comes up over and over again, most people that are members of public forums haven't 'been there' from the very beginning.

This thread is about 'beliefs' in martial arts wether they be supernatural or just not based on evidence. Is there anything in your style,, or any other style for that matter that you'd like to share?

Plus this is the 'general' section of MT, so everything posted here concerns martial arts in a 'general sense'. You don't have to be interested in this topic, but I am. For example, because of my superficial understanding Greco Roman wrestling's history, I thought there was an ancient origin ( probably because of its name). That assumption was incorrect.
I find it useful to have a specific thread where beliefs in martial arts in a general sense can be brought out to the open.

However, if a 'general' thread like this already exists, can someone provide a link please?

The way that I have been taught and the way that I teach have been devoid of anything 'supernataural.' I have had a few of what I would consider urban legends/old wives' tales come up from time to time (the black belt is a white belt that was worn until it was darkened by dirt and sweat, TKD flying side kicks were made to knock guys off of horses, taekwondo is 2000 years old, etc.) and though not a part of the style of kumdo that I practice, Haidong Gumdo perpetuates the tale of the samurang, a group for which, to my knowledge, has absolutely no historical support.

I have been fortunate in that I have been taught according to the laws of physics and not according to the laws of folklore.... or anime.

I am open to the possible veracity of things that are outside of the physical and philosophical, but tend to be suspicious of things like no touch KO's and chi balls.

Kenshin's blind fighting skills, for example, I am open to and of a neutral opinion.

In teaching, I again, stick with what I know to be functional and practical.

Daniel

 

[fangjian]

the black belt is a white belt that was worn until it was darkened by dirt and sweat, TKD flying side kicks were made to knock guys off of horses,

Oh no. I actually believed those two. LOLZZZZZ

When I was an Aikidoka, I actually did that unwashed belt thing. My white belt was dark brown after about 6 years of training. Hahaha, gross. I didn't know that was not true. Thnx

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

Oh no. I actually believed those two. LOLZZZZZ

When I was an Aikidoka, I actually did that unwashed belt thing. My white belt was dark brown after about 6 years of training. Hahaha, gross. I didn't know that was not true. Thnx

I suspect that the belt was coming apart by that point and it probably never did get to black.

Not sure if you are aware, but the belt system is a relatively recent invention (less than 150 years old; recent in the grand scheme of martial arts). Jigoro Kano lifted the kyu/dan system from go and adapted it to his new art of judo. He introduced the judogi and the thin obi, with colors for ranks.

As for the flying side kick being developed for knocking guys off of horses, one need only think about that for a moment to see the absurdity.

Daniel

 

[fangjian]

one need only think about that for a moment to see the absurdity.

Daniel

This is always the case.

 

[K-man]

I have had a few of what I would consider urban legends/old wives' tales come up from time to time (the black belt is a white belt that was worn until it was darkened by dirt and sweat.

You have just destroyed my faith! I am sure my Aikido belt will be the colour of the darkest night given time. Not so much dirt but plenty of sweat!

 

[K-man]

But my first post is about beliefs in martial arts.

There are a lot of things that are misunderstood and I was hoping to find a specific thread that could go through tons of misconceptions without having to study something in depth.

I'm surprised to hear that there's another thread that goes through a bunch of myths in this manner.

I feel you are jumping from one horse to another, then another.

There are beliefs that can be discussed, an example of which could be 'ki' or 'chi' (Was the thread, 'Ki is a Hoax', really 2 years ago?).
There are misconceptions that can be discussed, example sport martial art is the same as traditional martial art and there are myths such as the martial application of NTKOs or the mythical application of ki in the 'Kiai Master vs MMA' vid.

Other myths, Yamaguchi fighting a tiger, Ueshiba avoiding bullets .... all good reading but all to be found in the library under 'fiction'.

As has been already said, there are lots of threads covering all of these if you are prepared to take the time to read through them. After 10 pages and 150 posts, just what more are you looking for? A BB in MT perhaps? :asian:

 

[fangjian]

I feel you are jumping from one horse to another, then another.
There are misconceptions that can be discussed, example sport martial art is the same as traditional martial art and there are myths such as the martial application of NTKOs or the mythical application of ki in the 'Kiai Master vs MMA' vid.

My original intention was about ANY belief ( either what we would call a BS techniques, or supernatural claim) in martial arts. And then a different thread leaked into this one about comparing styles. The bottom line though is that I think that 'some bodies of thought/technique/methodology' work more efficiently on average than others. And that some martial arts base a lot of their curriculum on superstition. Everyone else either disagrees with me though OR I have not properly articulated my thoughts in interpreting them to text. Which does happen. I'm not a very good writer. Don't bother responding about this though because it'll just turn in to, "you're wrong" "no I'm not" you're wrong" no I'm not".........
Misconceptions about capoeira got brought up in the middle of the thread and ended up getting blended in with whole thing, I think. Got kinda' interested in that, so started thinking that it would just be nice to see, like a glossary of some sort that puts it all there to see. A big nice list of myths and misconceptions for each style or something.

As has been already said, there are lots of threads covering all of these if you are prepared to take the time to read through them.

I think I've read almost every single post in the Balintawak sections of MT and FMATalk. So I got that one down but just that 'one subject' took forever. But there are still tons of basic things that I'm still not aware of, and no one's gonna' naturally gravitate toward styles' sections they are not particularly interested in. I'm certain that many still have some misconceptions regarding Ninjutsu. I'm sure this annoys Ninjutsu practitioners when uninformed people make ignorant comments about Ninjustu, so it would be nice if some of those were easily cleared up in one big glossary or something.

Regarding superstition in martial arts, I was just interested in what else there may be as well. I think my stance on it is clear, of course. I remember watching this video of an eskrimador who believed that his amulet, anting anting, gave him 'protection'. He proved he believed it by taking out a sword and nearly cutting his arm off. It was awful what his irrational belief had done. You could tell he was so embarrassed.

Ueshiba avoiding bullets

Hahaha. From doing Aikido quite a bit in the 90's, I met many people that believe this is possible.

After 10 pages and 150 posts, just what more are you looking for? A BB in MT perhaps? :asian:

Hehehe.

Not looking for anything. Everybody else here has already talked about this before.

 

[K-man]

I'm not sure if they were as big a hit overseas as here, but we have just had a craze with 'power bands'. These are rubber bracelets containing holograms that give you much greater energy, strength, endurance and balance. They are a snap at $65 and considering that a number of top sportsmen were either given them or paid to wear them, lots of people were sucked in.

http://www.theage.com.au/sport/power-wristbands-might-be-the-biggest-scam-20100619-yo11.html

In Australia they have had to refund money for making unsubstantiated claims.

Personally, I never bothered with one. I just wear my lucky pink jocks under my undies when I need a bit of a lift.

Now that's an irrational belief, a myth, a misconception and a hoax, all rolled into one. :asian:

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

My original intention was about ANY belief (either what we would call a BS techniques, or supernatural claim) in martial arts. And then a different thread leaked into this one about comparing styles. The bottom line though is that I think that 'some bodies of thought/technique/methodology' work more efficiently on average than others.

But also more efficiently on average for some than others. Some people do very well with certain arts because those arts compliment their build and their characteristics, whatever they may be.

Regarding BS techniques. we haven't really gotten into too much of that in this thread outside of supernatural techniques.

One thing that should always be qualified is the purpose of a technique. I understand that long, deep stances are done in Shotokan and in some other karate ryu kata in order to facilitate the strengthening of the legs, not with the intention of people fighting while staying in that stance. But people constantly make stupid comments, both on the web and in publications regarding the impracticality of such stances, and then go on to recommend a more mobile stance to fight in. The thing is that they are making either an uninformed or a misleading comparison.

And that some martial arts base a lot of their curriculum on superstition. Everyone else either disagrees with me though OR I have not properly articulated my thoughts in interpreting them to text. Which does happen. I'm not a very good writer. Don't bother responding about this though because it'll just turn in to, "you're wrong" "no I'm not" you're wrong" no I'm not".........
Misconceptions about capoeira got brought up in the middle of the thread and ended up getting blended in with whole thing, I think. Got kinda' interested in that, so started thinking that it would just be nice to see, like a glossary of some sort that puts it all there to see. A big nice list of myths and misconceptions for each style or something.

I have not trained in a wide enough variety of martial arts to agree or disagree with you and support my opinion factually. That is probably true of most of us here, so you will tend to get a lot of art specific responses.

I think I've read almost every single post in the Balintawak sections of MT and FMATalk. So I got that one down but just that 'one subject' took forever. But there are still tons of basic things that I'm still not aware of, and no one's gonna' naturally gravitate toward styles' sections they are not particularly interested in. I'm certain that many still have some misconceptions regarding Ninjutsu. I'm sure this annoys Ninjutsu practitioners when uninformed people make ignorant comments about Ninjustu, so it would be nice if some of those were easily cleared up in one big glossary or something.

If nothing else, it would be an amusing read.

Regarding superstition in martial arts, I was just interested in what else there may be as well. I think my stance on it is clear, of course. I remember watching this video of an eskrimador who believed that his amulet, anting anting, gave him 'protection'. He proved he believed it by taking out a sword and nearly cutting his arm off. It was awful what his irrational belief had done. You could tell he was so embarrassed.

What is anting anting?

Hahaha. From doing Aikido quite a bit in the 90's, I met many people that believe this is possible.

Of course its possible to avoid bullets. Don't tick off people with guns or go to places that are in the news reqularly because of shootings. Be respectful to the police and military (people who are generally either armed or armed at specific times with guns) and stay out of gun shops. You will very effectively avoid bullets.

Daniel

 

[fangjian]

What is anting anting?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agimat