Bare knuckle for self-defense?

[Doc]

Yeah, like breaking boards it's dumb. 27 little tiny spindly bones versus one big bone. Boxers in street fight invariable end up with a "boxers fracture" of the first knuckle. My wise Hawaiian Kahuna Teacher once told me, "Hit the hard with the soft, and the soft with the hard to avoid injury." My experience on the street validated that perspective as I saw colleagues end up in the emergency room for punching with a clenched fist a hard target. Same for the idiots arrested for fighting. Busted hands all around.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

Yeah, like breaking boards it's dumb. 27 little tiny spindly bones versus one big bone. Boxers in street fight invariable end up with a "boxers fracture" of the first knuckle. My wise Hawaiian Kahuna Teacher once told me, "Hit the hard with the soft, and the soft with the hard to avoid injury." My experience on the street validated that perspective as I saw colleagues end up in the emergency room for punching with a clenched fist a hard target. Same for the idiots arrested for fighting. Busted hands all around.

A boxers fracture is of the fifth metacarpal, not the first. I have had more than one street fight, and never broke a knuckle from a punching impact. It’s easy to avoid by knowing how to make a fist correctly, and not punching the rounded parts of the skull with knuckles. The facial parts of the skull are quite thin compared to the cranium, the bones behind the face plates have the consistency of potato chips.

 

[Alan0354]

A boxers fracture is of the fifth metacarpal, not the first. I have had more than one street fight, and never broke a knuckle from a punching impact. It’s easy to avoid by knowing how to make a fist correctly, and not punching the rounded parts of the skull with knuckles. The facial parts of the skull are quite thin compared to the cranium, the bones behind the face plates have the consistency of potato chips.

Yeh, BUT the guy moves, you aim at the face and he moves, it too late for you to change direction midway. You might end up punching the forehead or side with solid bone.

What is so wrong punching poles like I do? I am not saying to punch hard, do it lightly like what I do will strengthen the knuckle tremendously. One cannot think punching heavy bag will strength knuckles. I punch heavy bags for decades, I stuffed the bags to make it harder already. Nothing can prepare you to punch a hard target like the head.

Like I said, I broke my knuckles wearing a bag glove with 1/4" padding when I break boards. It should be at least as padded like the skull. I broke it so bad it took a long time to heal. Believe me, you won't get the second punch in after you break your knuckle, it's very painful. The move sickening thing is when the knuckle break, it collapses, I could feel it collapsed. That in turn cushion the blow and make it less effective!!!

It's easy to say you punch correctly and you won't have problem. Situation is dynamic, you don't have time to have the right distance, the right position and timing. Anything goes wrong and there goes your knuckle. The guy is NOT going to stand there and let you get to the perfect position to punch!!!

Punching is one thing I have been doing for decades, at the time, I went to school 2 hours earlier and working on the heavy bag. I never stop for decades. Believe me, NOTHING can prepare you to punch something hard like the skull. That's why I started punching pole 20 years ago after I broke my knuckle.

 

[Alan0354]

Yeah, like breaking boards it's dumb. 27 little tiny spindly bones versus one big bone. Boxers in street fight invariable end up with a "boxers fracture" of the first knuckle. My wise Hawaiian Kahuna Teacher once told me, "Hit the hard with the soft, and the soft with the hard to avoid injury." My experience on the street validated that perspective as I saw colleagues end up in the emergency room for punching with a clenched fist a hard target. Same for the idiots arrested for fighting. Busted hands all around.

Yes, breaking board is dumb, but the effect on the bone is real. Like I said, I wore bag glove to punch. It has 1/4" padding, better cushioning than the skin on the skull. I don't do board breaking, just play around that time and that hurt.

You cannot punch with soft hands all the way. You relax the hand, only squeeze at the target point at the last moment. That's very basic thing in punching, nothing new. BUT you still need to squeeze at the last moment at contact. Of cause I did that, still break my knuckle bad.

This has nothing to do with marchioness, it's about strengthening the bones. I punch light, just to strengthen the bone, nothing about showing off, there's nothing to show off punching so light like me anyway. I think it will make a day and night difference on the knuckle.

Like I said, I am not new in punching. Been practicing on heavy bags for decades. Nothing can prepare you to punch skull. talk is easy, real life situation is dynamic, the guy moves, you likely not contact at the optimal point you expect.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

Yeh, BUT the guy moves, you aim at the face and he moves, it too late for you to change direction midway. You might end up punching the forehead or side with solid bone.

What is so wrong punching poles like I do? I am not saying to punch hard, do it lightly like what I do will strengthen the knuckle tremendously. One cannot think punching heavy bag will strength knuckles. I punch heavy bags for decades, I stuffed the bags to make it harder already. Nothing can prepare you to punch a hard target like the head.

Like I said, I broke my knuckles wearing a bag glove with 1/4" padding when I break boards. It should be at least as padded like the skull. I broke it so bad it took a long time to heal. Believe me, you won't get the second punch in after you break your knuckle, it's very painful. The move sickening thing is when the knuckle break, it collapses, I could feel it collapsed. That in turn cushion the blow and make it less effective!!!

It's easy to say you punch correctly and you won't have problem. Situation is dynamic, you don't have time to have the right distance, the right position and timing. Anything goes wrong and there goes your knuckle. The guy is NOT going to stand there and let you get to the perfect position to punch!!!

Punching is one thing I have been doing for decades, at the time, I went to school 2 hours earlier and working on the heavy bag. I never stop for decades. Believe me, NOTHING can prepare you to punch something hard like the skull. That's why I started punching pole 20 years ago after I broke my knuckle.

Yeah ok, I am not just fantasizing, I have done it. More than a few times. I will say it again, if you don’t correctly structure yourself, you can be injured. If you get into fights, you can be injured. No surprises there. I don’t get into these situations anytime recently, but I don’t have doubts that I can do it if needed. I too have several decades of training, I also have many years of surgical experience assisting in the repairing these types of injuries. Understanding where and how to strike does make some difference. I will say here for at least the third time, DONT STRIKE THE ROUNDED PARTS OF THE SKULL WITH THE KNUCKLES! If you doubt your ability to land strikes on your chosen target after decades of training, maybe you need to consider a different hobby.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

Yeh, BUT the guy moves, you aim at the face and he moves, it too late for you to change direction midway. You might end up punching the forehead or side with solid bone.

What is so wrong punching poles like I do? I am not saying to punch hard, do it lightly like what I do will strengthen the knuckle tremendously. One cannot think punching heavy bag will strength knuckles. I punch heavy bags for decades, I stuffed the bags to make it harder already. Nothing can prepare you to punch a hard target like the head.

Like I said, I broke my knuckles wearing a bag glove with 1/4" padding when I break boards. It should be at least as padded like the skull. I broke it so bad it took a long time to heal. Believe me, you won't get the second punch in after you break your knuckle, it's very painful. The move sickening thing is when the knuckle break, it collapses, I could feel it collapsed. That in turn cushion the blow and make it less effective!!!

It's easy to say you punch correctly and you won't have problem. Situation is dynamic, you don't have time to have the right distance, the right position and timing. Anything goes wrong and there goes your knuckle. The guy is NOT going to stand there and let you get to the perfect position to punch!!!

Punching is one thing I have been doing for decades, at the time, I went to school 2 hours earlier and working on the heavy bag. I never stop for decades. Believe me, NOTHING can prepare you to punch something hard like the skull. That's why I started punching pole 20 years ago after I broke my knuckle.

It is NOT too late to change direction during a punch. If you can’t change direction or take it back then that’s a different topic. I very often DO change direction. You don’t have to believe me, but if you don’t, please consider the possibility that your cup may a little too full.

 

[Alan0354]

Yeah ok, I am not just fantasizing, I have done it. More than a few times. I will say it again, if you don’t correctly structure yourself, you can be injured. If you get into fights, you can be injured. No surprises there. I don’t get into these situations anytime recently, but I don’t have doubts that I can do it if needed. I too have several decades of training, I also have many years of surgical experience assisting in the repairing these types of injuries. Understanding where and how to strike does make some difference. I will say here for at least the third time, DONT STRIKE THE ROUNDED PARTS OF THE SKULL WITH THE KNUCKLES! If you doubt your ability to land strikes on your chosen target after decades of training, maybe you need to consider a different hobby.

Again, you keep assume you can hit dead on the target as if the target is standing still. You assume the other guy don't know anything and just stand there. I don't. Look at the fights in UFC, how often they land it dead on? This is real life, you think it's in movie?

 

[Alan0354]

It is NOT too late to change direction during a punch. If you can’t change direction or take it back then that’s a different topic. I very often DO change direction. You don’t have to believe me, but if you don’t, please consider the possibility that your cup may a little too full.

I think you think too highly of yourself and assume the other guy don't know anything. This is one thing I never get, you guys TALK fight, not fight.

Watch the UFC fight, look at how fast those people move. Don't assume you opponent just stand there. Give more credit to your opponent. Or you might be in with a brutal awakening.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

Again, you keep assume you can hit dead on the target as if the target is standing still. You assume the other guy don't know anything and just stand there. I don't. Look at the fights in UFC, how often they land it dead on? This is real life, you think it's in movie?

You don’t read the whole post do you?

 

[Alan0354]

You don’t read the whole post do you?

Maybe you should make a video to show how fast you can punch and how hard on a heavy bag so I can learn something. Yes, I punch slow, so I have to do preventative preparation.

I read your post, this is where the talk ends. Show and tell, make a video of yourself punching heavy bag, NOT from your younger days.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

Again, you keep assume you can hit dead on the target as if the target is standing still. You assume the other guy don't know anything and just stand there. I don't. Look at the fights in UFC, how often they land it dead on? This is real life, you think it's in movie?

UFC isn’t real life for you or for me. I havent been in ufc and neither have you. I HAVE actually been in fights, several. They don’t always go the way I wanted, I’m honest about that. I hope that you read the whole post. Please don’t misunderstand me Alan, I don’t mean disrespect to you, but it’s rather insulting when you tell me about stuff that I have actually done many times.

 

[Alan0354]

UFC isn’t real life for you or for me. I havent been in ufc and neither have you. I HAVE actually been in fights, several. They don’t always go the way I wanted, I’m honest about that. I hope that you read the whole post. Please don’t misunderstand me Alan, I don’t mean disrespect to you, but it’s rather insulting when you tell me about stuff that I have actually done many times.

Read my response, make a video. I did posted my punching on heavy bag long time ago for the better or the worst.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

I think you think too highly of yourself and assume the other guy don't know anything. This is one thing I never get, you guys TALK fight, not fight.

Watch the UFC fight, look at how fast those people move. Don't assume you opponent just stand there. Give more credit to your opponent. Or you might be in with a brutal awakening.

The things you post demonstrate that your level of ability is what is informing your statement. Once again, there might be something you don’t know or can’t do.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

Read my response, make a video. I did posted my punching on heavy bag long time ago for the better or the worst.

I highly doubt that any of us will be attacked on the street by actual ufc fighters. If that happens, then I will probably lose that fight. I do not and never have claimed to be a ufc level fighter. I don’t make videos, and I’m not here to show off or prove anything to anyone. Take it or leave it.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

I think you think too highly of yourself and assume the other guy don't know anything. This is one thing I never get, you guys TALK fight, not fight.

Watch the UFC fight, look at how fast those people move. Don't assume you opponent just stand there. Give more credit to your opponent. Or you might be in with a brutal awakening.

This is me and you talking, don’t project on others.

 

[Alan0354]

I highly doubt that any of us will be attacked on the street by actual ufc fighters. If that happens, then I will probably lose that fight. I do not and never have claimed to be a ufc level fighter. I don’t make videos, and I’m not here to show off or prove anything to anyone. Take it or leave it.

Ok, I understand, you just talk. Maybe I should delete all my video that show how slow I am and talk as if I can fly.

Yes, I can change direction in the middle of the punch, I am fast enough to land on the opponent before they can react.

 

[chiquest]

Does anyone have experience hitting someone in the face in self-defense with a closed fist? I'm talking about striking with the knuckles, not a hammer fist or anything.

Have you been witness to this event? Did the striker break his hand?

Do you see closed fist strikes to an opponents face as a viable technique for self-defense? Do you feel confident and plan on using a closed fist?

Does your system teach closed fist strikes? And do they prepare you to strike a real attacker in this manner?

Why take the chance of breaking your hand with a punch to the head? A palm heel strike delivers at least as much blunt force...with the added benefit of fingers to the eyes if the strike is to the chin with the fingers bent slightly. I can pop my 80-pound heavy bag much harder with a palm strike than with a fist. Instead of a hook punch or "hay maker", cup the hand and strike the ear. That will severely disorient an attacker so that additional strikes and kicks can be delivered. Bas Rutten recommends palm strikes to the head for most folks to use...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gm0SyEqc7ns (2:35 in the video). Also, Joe Rogan...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q4briNhn4xQ.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

Ok, I understand, you just talk. Maybe I should delete all my video that show how slow I am and talk as if I can fly.

Yes, I can change direction in the middle of the punch, I am fast enough to land on the opponent before they can react.

Ok than why are we arguing? You can do it, and you think I can’t. I’m quite all right with that. Maybe you are faster and more able than me. Lots of folks probably are. If you are fast enough to land it before they can react then why would you believe otherwise about me? Anyone can do it with training. You can even punch people in the face and not break your hand if you train and have skill and get lucky, I know because I have done it. People break bricks, boards etc. with the knuckles, why would you think that face bones are tougher than bricks? Sure, my best fighting days are past me, no doubt about it. I tell you what, it’s not hard to find me, if you come to Northern California come visit me and we can train together. That’s a far better way to discern whether I am just hot air or talking from a place genuine sincerity. I also mean that from a respectful and genuine perspective. I would be happy to have you check out my teaching methodologies and then you can run me down all you want on this forum.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

Why take the chance of breaking your hand with a punch to the head? A palm heel strike delivers at least as much blunt force...with the added benefit of fingers to the eyes if the strike is to the chin with the fingers bent slightly. I can pop my 80-pound heavy bag much harder with a palm strike than with a fist. Instead of a hook punch or "hay maker", cup the hand and strike the ear. That will severely disorient an attacker so that additional strikes and kicks can be delivered. Bas Rutten recommends palm strikes to the head for most folks to use...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gm0SyEqc7ns (2:35 in the video). Also, Joe Rogan...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q4briNhn4xQ.

Bad Rutten is an expert with that palm strike. It is very effective. Nothing wrong with that. We were really just discussing whether it can be done(fist to face)without breaking the hand. I say it can because I have done it. Some people disagree with me, and to make their point, they suggest I am just talking falsely. If anyone reads the entirety of what I post, I said over and over just don’t strike the rounded parts of the skull. That’s where the hammer fist and palm strikes are useful.

 

[Alan0354]

Ok than why are we arguing? You can do it, and you think I can’t. I’m quite all right with that. Maybe you are faster and more able than me. Lots of folks probably are. If you are fast enough to land it before they can react then why would you believe otherwise about me? Anyone can do it with training. You can even punch people in the face and not break your hand if you train and have skill and get lucky, I know because I have done it. People break bricks, boards etc. with the knuckles, why would you think that face bones are tougher than bricks? Sure, my best fighting days are past me, no doubt about it. I tell you what, it’s not hard to find me, if you come to Northern California come visit me and we can train together. That’s a far better way to discern whether I am just hot air or talking from a place genuine sincerity. I also mean that from a respectful and genuine perspective. I would be happy to have you check out my teaching methodologies and then you can run me down all you want on this forum.

First all, I am not running you down, we are all too old for that already. You are NOT reading my post. I said do NOT assume anyone can land a perfect punch at the perfect spot. NO MATTER HOW GOOD YOU ARE, there's always a faster person. All I am saying is toughen up the knuckles as insurance in case one miss and hit the forehead resulting in breaking the knuckles.

I did not say I am fast, I am slow. I did post a video of punching and kicking heavy bag, nothing to write home about. I am slow, so I practice in case I miss and hit the forehead. It's a good insurance.

Honestly, I treat kick boxing as aerobics only. I am too old to learn the newer and much more effective fighting skill like BJJ, MMA. I live in N Calif in the bayarea, but what is the point of getting together on this. If I have the body, I would much rather find a BJJ school to work on it instead of talking about who punch harder and faster!!! But I am too old and too injured for any of that. I just do my heavy bags and stick fight as aerobics. Speaking of self defense, stick fight is so so much more effective than bare knuckles, I don't even think about bare knuckles much anymore. Like I said, I am slow, you just cannot be too fast when getting close to 70. I join in because I read the tittle and I share my experience.