If there is a right arm deal with right arm WC sticky hand training video, I would like to see it. If Bong Shou is used in that situation, I also world like to see it.
Bad Chi Sao has ruined WC as a fighting art!
- Thread starter hunschuld
- Start date
What if your opponent is not in square body? Your opponent may not be a WC guy.
I'm talking about when you right arm touch on your opponent's right arm, you cannot use Bong Shou.
Can Bruce's opponent uses WC Bong Shou to deal with Bruce's punch in this video? Of course he can. But how can he prevent Bruce from using Bruce's left hand to push up on his right elbow joint when he uses Bong Shou?
In other words, can WC Bong Shou be a solution here?
This would not be a typical bong sau situation.For simplicity bong is either aggressive, Ballistic as wckf93 stated or the opponents energy creates it. Bruce is pak ing the elbow down clearing the punch as a movie shot. I just entered in Youtube cross handed chi sau and this came up at the very top. It should answer some questions.
We call this explosive use you mention, Pau Bong. Translated as "throwing" or "tossing" Bong.
Bong is an interesting term, like many of the shapes in Wing Chun, a lot can get lost in translation. When pronounced with a low tone, in Cantonese, Bong means "scaffold". However, many people pronounce it incorrectly resulting in a completely different word. When Bong is pronounced with a higher tone, it means to "tie the hand". Each of these meanings has a different Chinese character, that is why the Bong found in Wing Chun is the "scaffold" character.
This says quite a bit about the intended transitory purpose of Bong within the system.
Thanks for showing these clips. This is the 1st time that I have seen WC right arm contact right arm training clip. IMO, this training is much closer to the real fight.
IMO, if WC sticky hand also include right arm deal with right arm, this kind of training can be the most valuable element that CMA can offer to the world.
The nice thing about the right arm deal with right arm sticky hand is you can train almost all throwing skill if you want to.
To guide your opponent's one arm to jam his other arm is an excellent strategy.
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Im late to the party, as usual... what portion of this video is being considered "Cross Arm Chi Sau"?
All good brother! lol thanks for the reply! I enjoy reading your posts.
Okay, If I understand you correctly, you only use shifting steps when: 1. you are already within bridge contact distance with the opponent to maintain your bridge contact distance, or 2. to close in just as the opponent is about to close into bridge contact distance with you?
Do you mean stepping 45 degrees diagonally forward on one side of a V with the point of the V facing you. - left or right with the same front foot as the side you step to. the right foot is forward if you step right, left if you step left. and then the rear leg uses a shifting step to attack through the opponents center and it becomes the front leg as you re-face the opponent from his flank?
or more of a lateral side step across to the outside of the opponent's lead leg and then the rear leg uses a shifting step to attack through the opponents center and it becomes the front leg as you re-face the opponent from his flank?
Do you mean the shifting front step starting at .12 into the clip?
This makes total sense! I never really thought of this as part of the "shifting steps" category until you brought it up here. but I guess a "shifting step" can be classified as anytime you are shifting while stepping from one place to another?
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Svarog
Yellow Belt
They have movements in the form but they don't use it in chi sao, not originally anyway, I have seen many styles "Yipmanized" over the last few decades due to Yip Man's popularity. What those movements are used for I can't say because I really don't know anything about that style besides what can see on internet videos, perhaps someone who trained that style could give a proper explanation. Here are few first videos appeared in search.
Stories about "three heroes of Wing Chun" should be taken carefully because they came mainly from Yip Man's students and were later accepted by some other people in Foshan but people from Yuen Kai San lineage have different view of things, one of the Yuen Kai San's students said in an interview that Yip Man was Yuen Kai San's student, if I manage to find the video I will post it because I can't read Chinese and interview is in Chinese. Other sources from Yuen Kai San lineage state that Yuen and Yip families were friends but not Yuen Kai San and Yip Man , actually it was the opposite . Having in mind Chinese culture and especially Kung Fu culture , truth is usually extremely well hidden behind folk tales, hype and outright lies and takes a lot of patience and a lot of serious research to get small pieces of true events.
Highlander
Green Belt
What if your opponent is not in square body? Your opponent may not be a WC guy.
I'm talking about when you right arm touch on your opponent's right arm, you cannot use Bong Shou.
Can Bruce's opponent uses WC Bong Shou to deal with Bruce's punch in this video? Of course he can. But how can he prevent Bruce from using Bruce's left hand to push up on his right elbow joint when he uses Bong Shou?
In other words, can WC Bong Shou be a solution here?
Honestly none of this conversation really matters because don chi (single are chi sao) is only a training exercise. Yes the arm not in use can grab/hit or any number of things. But that's not the drill. Just like in chi sao its considered back form to pull a gun
Highlander
Green Belt
I dont really know much about the other styles of WT before Yip Man. But in all this videos I very much see rolling hands.
wckf92
Master of Arts
The excessively "side to side" rolling has always puzzled me when you filter it through the mainly direct nature of wing chun. To me it almost has a tai chi look to it at times. The only chi sau platform I have direct knowledge of is the forward-intention version (Yip Man version?) of the drill. So, it is interesting to see how other families and lineages do it.
Did Ip Men teach "cross arm sticky hand"? I have met 3 of Ip Men's students. As far as I know, none of them had learned from Ip Men for this kind of training.
Your thought?
Your thought?
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wckf92
Master of Arts
Yup. He must have, because cross arm sticking hand is alive and well in 2020... Do you recall who the three people were? I.e. Names, etc?
Do you have any Ip Men video on "cross arm sticky hand" training?
The Law's brothers and Jimmy Kao. I met all 3 of them when I was a UT Austin student back in 1973. They were UT Austin students too. I learned WC 3 forms and single sticky hand, double sticky hand from Jimmy Kao (who lives in Houston today).
Here is one of my old WC clips.
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Mirror stance - Your normal WC sticky hand will work here. When your opponent punches you with his leading arm, your leading arm Bong Shou will work here.
Uniform stance - Your cross arm WC sticky hand will work better here. When your opponent punches you with his leading arm, your leading arm Bong Shou will not work here.
Uniform stance - Your cross arm WC sticky hand will work better here. When your opponent punches you with his leading arm, your leading arm Bong Shou will not work here.
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Flying Crane
Sr. Grandmaster
I’m not going to try and tell a bunch of Wing Chun people how to improve their chi sao or their Wing Chun. I’m no authority on the topic, after all.Mirror stance - Your normal WC sticky hand will work here.
Uniform stance - Your cross arm WC sticky hand will work better here.
But I will suggest that if two people face off to have a combative competition, and one of them simply starts walking a circle around the other, when he is too far away to even make physical contact if he even tried, which he has not, then that person has misunderstood his training.
IMO, foot sweep is the best initial attack. When your opponent circle walks around you, he will cross his legs or have wide stance.
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Flying Crane
Sr. Grandmaster
That might work. But that’s beside the point I was making.
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Flying Crane
Sr. Grandmaster
That wasn’t my point.Agree that one should not try to establish arm contact in kicking range.
My point was actually kind of a tangent, just based on my observation of the video clip you included. It just struck me that the fellow was pointlessly walking around the other guy, I assume he had trained bagua and was doing his circle walk. Pointlessly. Accomplishing nothing. Doing something from his training, but without meaningful context that is necessary for it to be useful.
That kind of stuck out in my mind. I think a whole lot of people just don’t understand why some aspects of training and the curriculum exist. Nothing exists in a vacuum. It all depends on the context of the situation, what the other guy is doing, what else is in your vicinity.
The thread on the charge punch fits this as well. Some comments made by some people in that discussion made it clear to me that they do not understand the charge punch. Which is fine by me. But the charge punch would be a dangerous thing to try as a way to bridge distance, to just run into someone starting at a distance well out of range, with no hope of making contact until the third or fourth punch. That would be a stupid thing to do. But some comments in that discussion made it clear to me that some people think that is what it would be for.
I think that mindset bleeds into discussions on chi sao as well. Not acknowledging the context, the training paradigm, that chi sao is not fighting, but rather is training, and has numerous variants designed to build different traits and skills. So I think my observation is still on topic, here in this thread.
