Attacking the Guard

[JowGaWolf]

A few months ago, there was a discussion about striking arms. I mentioned that Jow Ga trains to strike the arms. Here's an example. Of what that looks like. This is just one of the many ways we strike arms.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

If you knock on your opponent's guard down, your opponent can borrow your force, spin his arm and hook punch back at you. In order to prevent that from happening, it's better to knock/grab on your opponent's wrist. Of course, it's impossible to do when you have gloves on.

"Knock down guard -> grab wrist" should be integrated into 1 move, otherwise, "knock down guard -> comb hair -> arm wrap" should be combined into 1 move (in case your opponent borrows your force and hook punch you back).

To disable your opponent's arm mobility is better than just to knock his arm away. Same reason I don't like "push". You push your opponent away; he will come back to you. But if you put him under your knee, he will remain there.

 

[Buka]

I don’t think I’ve ever seen a style that doesn’t have techniques that attack or trap the guard. Not that I remember anyway.

JKD guys used to tear my guard apart. They gave me fits for years.

 

[JowGaWolf]

If you knock on your opponent's guard down, your opponent can borrow your force, spin his arm and hook punch back at you. In order to prevent that from happening,

Feel free to go for that option if you think you can sneak a hook in. Just based on how I throw these punches it's not always an overhand strike. Sometimes that lead hand turns into hook sometimes it's an elbow. In the video above, he takes a linear drive. In application you want to step off at a 45-degree angle. Unless the intention is to drive the person backwards.

I wouldn't do it. If they step 45 degrees in the opposite direction of the incoming punch, then you'll get nailed while trying to hit something that is no longer there. There are just too many different types of strikes that can come off that second punch to risk something like that. The assumption is that the 2nd strike would be an overhand and it's not always an overhand.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

to strike the arms.

You have 2 options here. You can

1. strike your opponent's arm down.
2. guide your opponent's arm away from your attacking path.

IMO, 1 < 2

because

- your opponent is difficult to borrow your force.
- you can control your opponent's arm longer.
- you use less energy to achieve the same goal.
- you are less commit -> you can have more speed and less risk.

 

[isshinryuronin]

To disable your opponent's arm mobility is better than just to knock his arm away.

This is one of the biggest mistakes I see in sparring - wasted effort. Simply moving the guy's guard, or even blocking, is a wasted opportunity if there is no offensive follow-up. And getting a grab in gives you more options and control.

I don’t think I’ve ever seen a style that doesn’t have techniques that attack or trap the guard.

Maybe true of many styles and often represented in kata bunkai, but not put into application by most individuals in my experience.

In the video above, he takes a linear drive. In application you want to step off at a 45-degree angle.

I was thinking this same thing watching the video. Closing in on an angle would optimize the guard attack maneuver and facilitate a counter. Even closing straight in, working your way up the guard: wrist>elbow>upper arm and shoulder. Now you're in biting distance.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

is a wasted opportunity if there is no offensive follow-up.

I believe there are 2 different kinds of fighting.

1. You attack, your opponent moves back, your opponent attacks, you move back, ...
2. You wait for the best opportunity, move in, and finish the fight.

1 has no plan. 2 has plan.

When I was just a striker, I used plan 1. If I can't knock my opponent down in friendly sparring, the word "finish" has no meaning in friendly sparring. You attack me; I move back. I attack you; you move back. This becomes very normal in striking game sparring. After I became a wrestler, to take my opponent down ASAP became my goal. I started to appreciate plan 2 better.

 

[JowGaWolf]

I was thinking this same thing watching the video. Closing in on an angle would optimize the guard attack maneuver and facilitate a counter. Even closing straight in, working your way up the guard: wrist>elbow>upper arm and shoulder. Now you're in biting distance.

When I first started learning how to do the long strikes. I learned that I need to take angles. I had to eat a few punches to learn but I learned. I aslo learn that some of the punches that we trained by moving forward work better when we move backwards.

As Wang moves forward to grab the lead arm a step back with the left leg will set up a long fist strike with his rear hand provided that this rear hand is elbow down and not guarding his head. Having the guard up that high makes it difficult to quickly hide the rear arm behind the body. This would work on someone like Wang who always likes to move forward. It won't work on someone if they aren't eager to move forward.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Simply moving the guy's guard, or even blocking, is a wasted opportunity if there is no offensive follow-up.

I don't like to move a guard unless I can pull them off bance for a quick second. Throw a punch at someones head and he'll put the guard up for you to hit. Instead of targeting the head target the guard and the force will be delivered at full impact upon the guard.

This works because the power is intended for the head. This will not work if the power is intended for guard. Send a strike toward someones head and they will freely give their arm. If I swing in the direction of someone head then the assumption is that I'm aiming for the head.

With long fist techniques, this is way too close for any big swings. If I'm doing long fist techniques and someone can touch that far beyond my elbow then I was in trouble long before I got into this position.

This is good distance for the 1st or 2nd long fight strike in a combo. The only bad part here is the foot off the ground and the fist at the waist. My personal thought is that his Sanda is bleeing into his Jow Ga. But if the first strike is at this range the second one will land. The video actuall shows what you are talking about not having an offensive follow up. If you want the video you can see the teacher show him how to roll the backfist for that follow up offensive, but it doesn't look like this student uses that technique. For Jow Ga it's the only way to fill in the gaps of the big swings.

 

[windwalker099]

A few months ago, there was a discussion about striking arms. I mentioned that Jow Ga trains to strike the arms. Here's an example. Of what that looks like. This is just one of the many ways we strike arms.

One of my favorite movements within Tibetan White Crane is to directly take out the lead arm. Either directly or using what was called "burning hand" The strike would numb out the opponents arm causing them to drop it...Or stop everything, not being able to continue.

The footwork is a bit different but follows the same concept.

Taiji is similar in that any point touched becomes the point where force is issued, affecting the whole body.
No need to target the body directly.

 

[Buka]

Isn’t it great how we learn to deal with these things?

Lumps on the way just part of the process.