Assaults on cops rise.

[Bob Hubbard]

Posted on KenpoTalk, importing here.

Here's an article that should be of interest to some.

ATLANTA – Two officers in a remote Alaska town were ambushed as they chatted on a street. Two California deputies were killed by an arson suspect with a high-powered rifle as they tried to serve him a warrant. Two other officers doing anti-drug work were gunned down by men along a busy Arkansas highway.
These so-called cluster killings of more than one officer helped make 2010 a particularly dangerous year for law enforcement. Deaths in the line of duty jumped 37 percent to about 160 from 117 the year before, according to numbers as of Dec. 28 compiled by the National Law Enforcement Officers Memorial Fund, a nonprofit that tracks police deaths.
There also was a spike in shooting deaths. Fifty-nine federal, state and local officers were killed by gunfire in 2010, a 20 percent jump from last year's figures when 49 were killed. And 73 officers died in traffic incidents, a rise from the 51 killed in 2009, according to the data.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

More people are desperate lately. Also, respect and fear of police is down. In some areas, fear and respect have been replaced by anger and contempt. Cops are not seen as 'serving and protecting' but 'intimidating and punishing on whim'.
The only way to reverse this trend is better education and training of the officers, and an extensive system of public relations to restore respect on both sides of the badge.

I see too many of these notices. I would be quite happy to never see another again.

A quick search on Youtube shows a large number of police encounter videos. While a lot of them are bluntly put, the work of dumbasses looking to impress their friends, there are enough showing bad judgment on the LEO side to influence things. I follow photographer Carlos Millers blog which details photographer-cop run ins, and there is a clear lack of education on the side of law enforcement in regards to photographers rights. In some cases weapons are drawn, photographers assaulted, and equipment damaged, while the photographer was lawfully engaged in legal actions. These stories get out, and the result is not respect, not fear, but contempt of cops. I have a great deal of respect for cops. My family has several in it, several of my staff on MT are LEO's, I count a number of LEO's as my clients. I like to think I'm on good terms with them. But I don't want to deal with them as a photographer, have no desire to be lied to about where I can and can't shoot (on private property with owners permission, from my own property, and in public no permission needed), what I can or can't shoot (hint: if it's in public, it's legal outside of a couple of military installations), if I need permission (hint: if you're in public I don't), if I have to show you my pictures (no), if I have to delete them on demand (no), if I need to show you ID (not in most cases), if I need to give you my film (not unless you have a warrant), and so on. All of these points have been caught on video with cops in the wrong...to the extent of a cop being caught asking his partner if they couldn't just make something up to intimidate the photographer, and a newb Secret Service agent drawing his gun and ordering a photographer to delete a picture or 'else'...

Cases like this erode public trust, the case with the SS involved a respected professional photographer who has previously photographed the President. If he is getting hassled, then what about me when I venture out? Now, I'm not suggesting cameramen are behind the increase in cop shootings and assaults, however it is 1 symptom on a list of many that needs to be addressed in order to rebuild public trust in our police.

Also eroding our (the public) respect are the increased cases of cops being found to be criminals themselves. WNY has had several in recent years convicted, with the suggestion that there are more still. Our local holding center has had a number of prisoner suicides and escapes in recent years, prompting Federal investigation and determinations of wrong doing by our county police. Again, more cases that work to undermine our trust and respect in LEO's.

The cops are frustrated themselves due to poor funding, inadequate equipment, spotty training, and politicians playing games with them. They have to deal with the public distrust, and I've heard from several that the on the job stress takes a toll. Their goal is to do their job to the best of their abilities and go home at the end of the day. We all do, but most of us don't have to deal with the dangers of answering a domestic complain, pulling over a drunk driver, or trying to break up a group of unruly kids alone. It's a hard job, and most cops are good people. The few bad apples give them headaches.

The public needs to be able to trust the police. This alone will help cut back a lot of the problems. The way to do that is educate both sides, and that involves more community involvement good positive PR. It wouldn't hurt if the rags calling themselves newspapers would report on all the good things cops do around town to balance the news better.

 

[Archangel M]

Yeah..but the nut in Alaska killed two cops who treated him fairly. They had dealt with this guy before (they were 2 cops of a 4-5 man department in a small small town) and didn't want to run a mentally ill man through the system. They were shot dead in front of their families for their troubles.

The Arkansas troopers were conducting a routine car stop that was on video. They were courteous and fair and were shot dead by a pair of "Freemen" whack jobs.

4 police officers at a coffee shop are killed by a gun toting violent ex-con.

The "the public doesn't trust cops because they are jackboots who steal cameras" just don't fly with me on 99.99% of this years violent cop deaths Bob. There are far too many violent and mentally ill people that continue to be spat back onto the streets via the "revolving door". Thats the real problem.

 

[billc]

Chicago is having this problem as well. I heard that the deaths of police officers are up 38% here in chicago. The city is down about 2000 officers, due to lack of hiring, regular time off and injuries, and the politicians are not ready to deal with the problem. The ambushing of officers is becoming more and more a common occurence. We have had a couple of big cases here in this year alone. We need more police, we need the citizens to back them up, and we need the politicians to cut loose with the necessary funds.

 

[Sukerkin]

The "the public doesn't trust cops because they are jackboots who steal cameras" .

<minor edit>

There are far too many violent and mentally ill people that continue to be spat back onto the streets via the "revolving door". Thats the real problem.

There are two truths in this paragraph and they should not be played off one against the other as they are both facets of the crisis.

The situation as seen from far away over here in England is that the 'good' people don't trust the poice because they are seen as 'enforcers' rather than protectors and the 'bad' people don't give a stuff because they know the policing methods are ineffectual against them.

How to fix that crime-and-punishment version of stagflation is beyond me. One thing is for sure, increasing the overt totalitarianism isn't going to make things better.

You could try reducing the causes of crime but the ingrained culture wont allow it because you've been trained to a spinal-reflex state that that's Communism (TM). Mind you, that only works for non-drug related crime and that's the core rot at the heart of the apple (here too).

 

[MA-Caver]

Agrees with what Sukerkin said... that 'good' people don't trust the poice because they are seen as 'enforcers' rather than protectors and the 'bad' people don't give a stuff because they know the policing methods are ineffectual against them.

The infamous cliche (which is sadly true) about the revolving door of the penal/justice system where criminals get off on technicalities even though they are totally guilty and all (other) evidence is against them (even if it was clear cut video) is only one of the many wrongs about our system.
Laws changing to protect the guilty instead of the innocent, where criminals have to have rights enforced in order to properly and lawfully prosecute them lest they be deemed unfair and railroaded into jail... that has got to go.
Understandably technology has helped numerous of people who were actually innocent be freed. These laws need staying and fine tuning so that mistakes like that don't happen. But actually guilty ones ... sigh... a detective or CSI messes up or misses just one thing in the investigation and "they have no choice but to let the perp go".

How are people going to respect the law knowing that they could get off that easily. Seems that lawyers are being trained to protect the guilty because they get a nice pay off at the end of it whereas the innocent may be just some regular Joe who is barely making ends meet and well, Joes aren't just as profitable.

Being an LEO has always been a dangerous job even when bad guys feared the cops and prison, where killing a cop was the WORST thing you can do and they run the risk of being alienated by their own ... and good folk felt confident and secure when they saw a cruiser passing by their house on a routine patrol.

It is getting worse but I still have my own faith in the cops that I know personally and the ones I see out doing their jobs. I have my prayers for them that they arrive home safely each night after a shift and sleep well knowing they're making a difference however small or big.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

I'm not saying "cops stealing cameras" is the cause.
It's 1 of a number of 'pin prick' erosion's of the 'public trust'.
WNY has had about 6-10 'bad cop' stories this past year alone..including 5 in-uniform cops who stopped in a bar, got drunk and roughed up the guy who asked them to calm down. WNY is a small area, that's alot of stories for us. When you see more and more 'bad cop' stories, it can and does erode trust. The answer isn't to shut up the messengers, it's to rebuild that trust.

Here's the KT thread where I and others have said a lot more
Police Fatalaties Jump



At the end of the day, I want 3 things, in regards to this topic.
I want to trust my law enforcement, and I want every cop to come home safe.
I also don't want to either need or be the recipient of their services.

 

[ballen0351]

As an LEO for the last 10 years I can say even in that time I have seen a big change in the way we do our jobs. Due to budget cuts most departments are understaffed which causes us to have to change our approach. No long can we be "protectors" we just dont have time we have to be "enforcers" because as soon as we are done dealing with the call we are on we have 10 more waiting for us. We dont have the time to talk to citizens to figure out real soultions to problems. Add that to the why the economy is causing most stress on the citizens which cause more crimes including domestic assaults, robberys, thefts. Also We as Law enforcment are not spared from the econmic problems. My salary alone has gone down 25% with furlough days and cutting out all overtime. That stresses us out then we have to go to work and deal with all that stress. We are only human.

Then on to Bad cops I think the number of bad cops has not changed I just think we are doing a better job of finding them and reporting it. There was at one time the blue wall where you didnt report your buddy for doing bad things you just looked the other way. I think that has now changed in police culture. Now add that to the fact that society as a whole has changed. In my state drug use and arrest records prior to apply to a job as law enforcement was an automatic disqualification. Prob is now we had to lower standards and allow less honorable people apply because we just cant find the squeeky clean people anymore. They are not applying for the jobs so we have to take what we can get. Fill a room up with 50 people applying for a police job and see how many in that room have admitted to using drugs or stealing at least 50% will admit to it.


Now for the OP about taking pictures. Ive been a cop for 10 years and have never taken someones camrea. Ive been photographed I have ordered people to stop taking pictures and I have ordered people with cameras to leave it all depends on what we have going on. If Im on a serious incident I dont want people taking pictures. If I have a victim I dont want you taking pics of them. You may have a "right" but you know what I dont care because that victim has "rights" to. Last time I removed a photographer was at a serious accident where a 14 year old boy was hit by a car and killed as he stood at the bus stop waiting to go to school. Some guy walked up and was trying to take pictures of this kids body which was very mangled. I stopped him because as a parent I would not want pics of my child like that to be out there for people to do god know what with. He had no reason to take the pics. No if I was standing there directing traffic, on a simple traffic stop or something with out a victim I could care less snapp all the pics you want.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

I appreciate your reply, I do however want to address 1 part of it.

What you as a cop, a concerned parent, or the local rabbi might want is irrelevant if the act is a lawful one. That last part is the crucial part. If the act is a -lawful- one.

If I am on a public sidewalk taking a photo of something in public, where there is no reasonable expectation of privacy, which plain view qualifies as, the taking of photos or video is a lawful act, unless the act is somehow interfering with your function as a LEO. Your discomfort, your idea of propriety are irrelevant. Please keep in mind I am arguing legal right, not moral right, which in the cases you mentioned I personally agree with you. The argument of 'just because you can, doesn't mean you should." Cops should be well aware of the idea of "in plain view" as I've seen that used to justify a number of arrests, and more.

In 1 accident case a cop walked over 100 feet to order a photographer to stop, and then assaulted the photographer when his unlawful order was legally refused. The cops justification for his actions was the exact same reason you gave. The cop didn't -want- the photographer to take photos. But cops don't make laws on whim, at least, they aren't supposed to.

I've posted a lot on photographers rights, and LEO encounter stories in the past, and don't wish this to become another of those threads.
See http://www.bobatkins.com/photography/tutorials/photography_law_rights.html and http://www.krages.com/phoright.htm for legal information on those.

We do have a number of LEO's here. What do you see as the causes for this problem? Ballen hit on a number of points that I think contribute to things.

 

[sgtmac_46]

The number of officers murdered in the line of duty is, thankfully, so low these days as to allow two or three specific multi-victim incidents to cause huge percentage increases from year to year.

I would be cautious to try and derive any kind of 'trend' from a yearly fluctuation other than the general downward trend for the last three decades.

160 this last year and 117 the year before is an extraordinarily low number for a nation of 300 Million people being policed by a few hundred thousand police officers. Each one is a tragedy, but as a whole they are a testament to the effectiveness of good training, good equipment, good tactics.

Because of the 24 hour news cycle, there is the perception that violence in American society is getting worse.......but the downward trend in police homicides parallels a general downward trend in crime and violence in America over the last three decades.

That's not to say there aren't still really bad folks out there who want to harm you or me, because they are definitely there......but they are not behind every tree.

 

[ballen0351]

I appreciate your reply, I do however want to address 1 part of it.

What you as a cop, a concerned parent, or the local rabbi might want is irrelevant if the act is a lawful one. That last part is the crucial part. If the act is a -lawful- one.

If I am on a public sidewalk taking a photo of something in public, where there is no reasonable expectation of privacy, which plain view qualifies as, the taking of photos or video is a lawful act, unless the act is somehow interfering with your function as a LEO. Your discomfort, your idea of propriety are irrelevant. Please keep in mind I am arguing legal right, not moral right, which in the cases you mentioned I personally agree with you. The argument of 'just because you can, doesn't mean you should." Cops should be well aware of the idea of "in plain view" as I've seen that used to justify a number of arrests, and more.
.

Im not saying what is done is right but sometimes as a human you just get so fed up with people doing just sicko things. Like taking pictures of a dead child. For what? What purpose would it serve other then for this creep to post these pics all over the internet and someday god forbid the parents stumble onto the pics on some forum. Take pics of the car, take pics of the police I dont care but not the body. I undersamd your point and I have defended the rights of many including that crazy westboro church that came to protest the death of 2 brothers 9 and 11 who drowned in a pond while there dad was serving in Iraq. The westboro people sent 20 protesters to these kids funeral holding sign. In general I have only had a neg. encounter with a photographer once that I can remember. Im not saying what I did was correct or legal and had he decided to press the issue I would have been in trouble but he was just a punk teenager that wanted the pics for facebook or myspace and to pass around at his school. Sometimes in this world you need to satand up for whats right and moral and that may make me a bad officer but at least I can look at myself in the mirror at night and sleep well.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Sadly, every idiot has access to a camera and suddenly thinks he's a photographer or tv reporter or a CSI. Give the legit people bad reps. There is a legit reason to photograph a dead child, but I don't have the ability to handle it. Look up "Now I lay me down to sleep" if interested. But that's a tangent.

:asian:

 

[Empty Hands]

The infamous cliche (which is sadly true) about the revolving door of the penal/justice system where criminals get off on technicalities even though they are totally guilty and all (other) evidence is against them (even if it was clear cut video) is only one of the many wrongs about our system.

Lets have some numbers here rather than rhetoric. How often is this happening? Is it really even happening beyond a statistically insignificant amount? How do you know it's a major problem? One number that should give you pause is that more than 90% of criminal cases end in a plea bargain - so they are convicted and face a punishment. Even if every other case "got off on a technicality", that's still less than 10%.

It's too easy to make emotional statements based on something that may not even be true - which has led you to wanting to dismantle our system of "innocent until proven guilty." Shouldn't you at least make sure it's worth the cost first?

Laws changing to protect the guilty instead of the innocent, where criminals have to have rights enforced in order to properly and lawfully prosecute them lest they be deemed unfair and railroaded into jail... that has got to go.

If charged defendants (no one is "guilty" until convicted) don't have rights, then none of us do. Our founders had the wisdom to understand that, thankfully.

 

[Empty Hands]

Add that to the why the economy is causing most stress on the citizens which cause more crimes including domestic assaults, robberys, thefts.

Untrue, all crime is still on its downward trend, the economy notwithstanding. Crime rates are lower now than in 2007, before the recession.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Looking at the "bad cop" angle...

Looking at the numbers for Buffalo NY, we've got "over 850 sworn and non-sworn men and women" according to the BPD's web site.
I've seen about 8 cases published of major wrong doing..that's less than 1% "bad cop", and the 'big' stories involve 2-3 repeat cases, making the % even less. That's good odds IMO. Also, with 1 exception I've always gotten a prompt and professional response when needed.

As an aside: http://www.bpdthenandnow.com/ has a history of the Buffalo PD.
Interesting reading.

 

[Sukerkin]

That is a reassuringly small number of cases :nods:.

Playing Devil's Advocate tho', how many 'questionable events' occur that never even get reported?

Mind you, we are drfiting just a little off the topic with that.

I am heartened to see some thought-provoking responses in this thread too, when it's a topic that could easily become incendury :tup:.

 

[Archangel M]

Last time I removed a photographer was at a serious accident where a 14 year old boy was hit by a car and killed as he stood at the bus stop waiting to go to school. Some guy walked up and was trying to take pictures of this kids body which was very mangled. I stopped him because as a parent I would not want pics of my child like that to be out there for people to do god know what with. He had no reason to take the pics. No if I was standing there directing traffic, on a simple traffic stop or something with out a victim I could care less snapp all the pics you want.

Set up a wide crime scene and buy portable barriers to screen the area. Those screens were some of the best investments we made.

Im w/Sgtmac. This "rise" in cop deaths is due to a number of unusual multiple homicides. The overall trend has been down since the highest spike in the 60's-70's. The number of "bad cops" is most likely down as well. Between better reporting, more media coverage and less tolerance from LEO's, I think you will find that these cases are a "good thing" vs a sign of a bad trend. More and more are being weeded out.

 

[ballen0351]

Set up a wide crime scene and buy portable barriers to screen the area. Those screens were some of the best investments we made.

Im w/Sgtmac. This "rise" in cop deaths is due to a number of unusual multiple homicides. The overall trend has been down since the highest spike in the 60's-70's. The number of "bad cops" is most likely down as well. Between better reporting, more media coverage and less tolerance from LEO's, I think you will find that these cases are a "good thing" vs a sign of a bad trend. More and more are being weeded out.

Yeah we had the screens just took us a while to get them out there and the "camera man" lived right there so he beat the screens out there. Plus for the first 25 min the kid was pinned between the car and the telephone pole so we were trying to get the car removed from his body.

 

[ballen0351]

Untrue, all crime is still on its downward trend, the economy notwithstanding. Crime rates are lower now than in 2007, before the recession.

Numbers dont always tell the true account. Numbers are fudged and now alot of people just dont report crimes anymore.

number fudging for instance If there is a call for a shooting and the victim lives but refuses to talk or "Snitch" then I know some places that have started calling this incident a self inflicted accident so its not a crime. I know Baltimore City PD is in trouble right now for not taking alot of rape reports because of victims not wanting to give all the details. OUr department wont take reports for thefts from vehicles and small thefts we just give an incident number over the phone we just dont have the man power to respond to them all. There is a big push at least where I work for crime numbers to drop and there are ways to have this occur it does not mean that crimes have actually fallen just the way they are reported. Im not saying every place is doing this but I have seen it.

 

[Archangel M]

The situation as seen from far away over here in England is that the 'good' people don't trust the poice because they are seen as 'enforcers' rather than protectors and the 'bad' people don't give a stuff because they know the policing methods are ineffectual against them.

One. We technically are Law ENFORCEMENT. We don't legislate, we are not the Judicial branch. We locate violators of the law and charge them. Yes we get cats out of trees, we link up the mentally ill/etc with social services and we locate little lost Johnny but I don't know if I agree with the villainization of "Enforcement".

And along those ends, we ENFORCE the laws that 9 times out of 10 the PEOPLE DEMANDED...and gripe when we don't enforce. For a simple example seat belt/cell phone laws. We are in the nice position of having to enforce these laws. When we don't we are derided as being lax in our duties...lazy...to busy going to the coffee shop to do our jobs etc. And when we do we are belittled as being "enforcers" and tax collectors for the "police state". When we don't stop a speeder we are allowing someone to go off and get in a fatal wreck...when we do we are asked why we don't "go arrest the REAL criminals"??

You want fewer laws for us to "enforce"?? Call your politicians.