Asking To Test

[Dirty Dog]

Does that mean you do not use Batsai Dai for 1st Dan testing?

No. As I have said before, we use the palgwae forms for our primary forms. Students who want KKW certification also learn the taegeuks. The yudanja forms are used after that. I also practice the chang hon tul and will teach them to interested students, but these are never mandatory.

 

[Gnarlie]

No. As I have said before, we use the palgwae forms for our primary forms. Students who want KKW certification also learn the taegeuks. The yudanja forms are used after that. I also practice the chang hon tul and will teach them to interested students, but these are never mandatory.

Point of order: yudanja is a a form of address for a group of black belt holders. Yugeupja for colour belts. The term yudanja for a poomsae / form set is not really clear because it just means "black belter's". I take it you are using it to mean Koryeo, Geumgang, Taebaek etc?

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

 

[JR 137]

You didn't say the word "impossible." But when you say you can do one thing, and it's not true for another thing, that means the other thing is impossible.

Not to speak for someone else, but I didn’t interpret what he said as it’s impossible.

“Yes, the Taegueks are so simple they could almost entirely be learned from video. Not true for other color belt forms (Pyang Ahns, Palgwe)or the Yudanja poonsae.”

To me, that says the Teagueks are very easy and can be learned from video, whereas the others aren’t so simple. Learning them through video would be significantly more difficult.

No where did I interpret they nor anything else is impossible. Impossible is a bit too strong of a word here.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Not to speak for someone else, but I didn’t interpret what he said as it’s impossible.

“Yes, the Taegueks are so simple they could almost entirely be learned from video. Not true for other color belt forms (Pyang Ahns, Palgwe)or the Yudanja poonsae.”

To me, that says the Teagueks are very easy and can be learned from video, whereas the others aren’t so simple. Learning them through video would be significantly more difficult.

No where did I interpret they nor anything else is impossible. Impossible is a bit too strong of a word here.

I read it as being more or less impossible. The Taegueks are simple, so could be learned from video. That is not true of the others. (Thus, it is not possible to learn them from videos.)

That you and I read it so differently might mean there's a significant amount of miscommunication in this argument.

 

[dvcochran]

No. As I have said before, we use the palgwae forms for our primary forms. Students who want KKW certification also learn the taegeuks. The yudanja forms are used after that. I also practice the chang hon tul and will teach them to interested students, but these are never mandatory.

Our color belt form sets are the Kicho Hyung 1-3 ,Pyong Ahn's and Palgwe's and then Batsai Dai for 1st Dan. We do not introduce the Palgwe's until green belt so there are some that will not be learned until after BB. Depends on the student. Same for the Taeguek's. They are mostly learned after 1st BB as a supplement.

 

[skribs]

Our color belt form sets are the Kicho Hyung 1-3 ,Pyong Ahn's and Palgwe's and then Batsai Dai for 1st Dan. We do not introduce the Palgwe's until green belt so there are some that will not be learned until after BB. Depends on the student. Same for the Taeguek's. They are mostly learned after 1st BB as a supplement.

That's why the Taegeuks seem simple to you. Because you are learning forms of similar complexity, but later in your grading.

 

[dvcochran]

That's why the Taegeuks seem simple to you. Because you are learning forms of similar complexity, but later in your grading.

Oh, it is not just me who has this opinion.

 

[dvcochran]

You didn't say the word "impossible." But when you say you can do one thing, and it's not true for another thing, that means the other thing is impossible.

That is simply not correct, makes Zero sense, and, again you are trying to twist a non-truth into what You want it to be. Very immature.

 

[PhotonGuy]

Those are some very big generalisations.

Yes I would say its a big generalization but it is the position that some people at least give the impression that they take.

 

[PhotonGuy]

So I can see how asking, "Can I test?" might not be a good thing to ask an instructor. So instead of asking, "Can I test?" how about asking, "Why haven't I been told I can test?"

 

[skribs]

So I can see how asking, "Can I test?" might not be a good thing to ask an instructor. So instead of asking, "Can I test?" how about asking, "Why haven't I been told I can test?"

Why are you necroing this thread?

 

[dvcochran]

So I can see how asking, "Can I test?" might not be a good thing to ask an instructor. So instead of asking, "Can I test?" how about asking, "Why haven't I been told I can test?"

What is the difference?

 

[Gerry Seymour]

So I can see how asking, "Can I test?" might not be a good thing to ask an instructor. So instead of asking, "Can I test?" how about asking, "Why haven't I been told I can test?"

A better question might be, "What do I need to do to be ready to test?"

 

[PhotonGuy]

Why are you necroing this thread?

Why not? If you don't like it you don't have to read it.

 

[PhotonGuy]

What is the difference?

Here is the difference, when you ask why you're not testing you're asking for feedback on what you need to work on, how you need to improve, so that you can test. When you just ask if you can test you're not asking for any such feedback and it might even come across as a challenge to your instructor's judgement. The instructor has better judgement than you on whether or not you're ready to test and that's what makes him the instructor and you the student, so if he's not letting you test he has his reasons and as a student I would trust his better judgement, but I would like to know why Im not testing, so I know what I need to work on to meet his standards and hopefully test the next time.

 

[PhotonGuy]

A better question might be, "What do I need to do to be ready to test?"

Yes that is exactly what I was trying to say in post #170 and you say it perhaps better than I do.

 

[skribs]

Why not? If you don't like it you don't have to read it.

Because it's bad manners on an internet forum to resurrect a post where the discussion has died.

 

[dvcochran]

Here is the difference, when you ask why you're not testing you're asking for feedback on what you need to work on, how you need to improve, so that you can test. When you just ask if you can test you're not asking for any such feedback and it might even come across as a challenge to your instructor's judgement. The instructor has better judgement than you on whether or not you're ready to test and that's what makes him the instructor and you the student, so if he's not letting you test he has his reasons and as a student I would trust his better judgement, but I would like to know why Im not testing, so I know what I need to work on to meet his standards and hopefully test the next time.

I agree, but if you don't think an instructor work their salt doesn't hear the implication whichever way you ask the question, you would be incorrect. It is semantics at best.
I had to go back and re-read the OP. So what is your real question? I get the sense there is more to the post.

 

[geezer]

There has been talk here before, that when it comes to testing for rank, asking your instructor "can I test?" has been frowned upon as being disrespectful.

So how about this, what if it's taking you longer to test than you expected?

Photon, I just went back to re-read the OP quoted above and here's my 2 cents:

I was was in a similar situation several years ago. it had been a while since I'd been promoted and I was concerned. However, unlike you, I do not have much difficulty talking to my instructor. At a quiet time, I pulled him aside and told him that I was quite serious about furthering my training and would appreciate it if he would give me any suggestions about what I could do to reach the next level. He wasn't offended at all and told me that he would keep it in mind.

A few more years passed and last year (Summer 2018) I tested and earned my next rank. Although it took me a total of 32 years to move up a rank , it only took me barely ten or eleven years training with him to get promoted, and only three more years after our conversation!

So you see, a simple conversation, some hard work, and I'm sure you too can get promoted within 10 -30 years. So why all the worry?

 

[skribs]

Here is the difference, when you ask why you're not testing you're asking for feedback on what you need to work on, how you need to improve, so that you can test. When you just ask if you can test you're not asking for any such feedback and it might even come across as a challenge to your instructor's judgement. The instructor has better judgement than you on whether or not you're ready to test and that's what makes him the instructor and you the student, so if he's not letting you test he has his reasons and as a student I would trust his better judgement, but I would like to know why Im not testing, so I know what I need to work on to meet his standards and hopefully test the next time.

But that depends on the expectations of the instructor. At my dojang, adults are expected to know what's on the test, and to know when they're ready to test. It is your own responsibility to ask. In this case, you aren't challenging the Master, because he has passed the responsibility onto the student. If you haven't tested, it's not because the Master hasn't invited you, it's because you haven't asked.

On the other hand, if you ask if you can test, and he says "I'll check you next class", then if he says you aren't ready, you aren't ready. At that point, it's okay to ask.

Even with the kids, where tests are mostly by invitation, it's okay for a kid to ask him. It's not that they're arguing that he's graded them incorrectly. It's that we've got probably 150+ kids in our dojang, and it's difficult to properly assess them all during the pre-testing weeks. Sometimes a kid misses a class when we would have seen him, sometimes we just skip over a kid because we think he just got his belt, so he's probably not ready, and he surprises us. Sometimes a kid isn't ready, but really wants his belt, and the conversation turns to what he needs to be able to do in order to test, and they make the extra effort to.

There are a lot of situations, whether your tests are by request or by invite, that it is not an insult to the Master. Sometimes, they're waiting for the "I think I'm ready" before they begin a serious evaluation.

It all depends on the culture of your school, and isn't something universal you're going to find on a generic martial art forum.