Article on Krav Maga

[JowGaWolf]

This should be interesting.

Kids these days lol. There always some young buck, thinking that people in TMA don't hit hard enough lol.

 

[JowGaWolf]

This I think is an example of what is missing from a krav style drill and for drills not really working. Generally unless the guy has real experience you don't get a good grasp on how to win an entry or win an exit. And so your techniques almost stop working as soon as the other person moves.

You just have all of these elements you have not accounted for.

Where as here he has won an entry.

Where as this for example pretty much won't work.

The ole Throw the Guy by catching his punching arm.. lol Good luck with that one. The thing about TMA that I don't like is that many school and students always think the attack is a punch. Like literally every technique is almost taught as something that someone does in defense of a punch. For whatever reason, the actually application of some techniques didn't get passed down correctly. Either that or the teacher forgot the application and took a best guess.

 

[drop bear]

The ole Throw the Guy by catching his punching arm.. lol Good luck with that one. The thing about TMA that I don't like is that many school and students always think the attack is a punch. Like literally every technique is almost taught as something that someone does in defense of a punch. For whatever reason, the actually application of some techniques didn't get passed down correctly. Either that or the teacher forgot the application and took a best guess.

The irony is you might be able to do it if you were super slick at hip throws. But you are not going to get slick at hip throws by setting it up off the punch like that.

 

[JowGaWolf]

The irony is you might be able to do it if you were super slick at hip throws. But you are not going to get slick at hip throws by setting it up off the punch like that.

yeah you would have to be really slick . not sure at which stage one would try to initiate catching the punching arm executing a hip throw. I know which punch comes in at the same angle as shown in the video but, I just don't see how someone would catch it. Usually people set up the big heavy punches buy nailing you with some faster punches. People don't usually start off with the heavy haymaker first.

 

[Ivan]

Every fighting system uses repetition.

As a person who trains in a TMA and who spars to learn. I'm not sure how much resistance you think you'll actually need but, it doesn't take much to screw something up. I could teach you Kung Fu and give you 10% resistance and you'll screw up the technique every time. You won't be able to take 50% resistance until you know and understand the technique at a level where you can deploy it.

Boxing is the same way. How many videos have we seen where a boxer or MMA fighter challenges everyday people to try to hit them. The fighters are able to avoid punches with very little resistance.

How much fighting resistance is this guy giving

My personal experience in terms of fighting resistance, is that some of you guys out there should be thankful your sparring partner doesn't crank it up to 50% and knock you on your back with a punch or kick to the face. You should be thankful your ribs aren't breaking because you think not enough resistance isn't giving. I spared with another instructor at 40%, I still had to pull punches, and had to cut the sparring session short for his saftey. We had a total of 4 sparring sessions at that level of intensity. By the time we finished the 4th the was dreading the thought of sparring at the level and getting busted up.

If you want to be effective with using TMA systems or any system, then you need to trust the technique that you are using. You need to practice at a level that will allow you to safely take risks, and you need to accept that you are going to get hit a lot before you actually learn how to deploy the technique.

Sparring at a high aggression level is just going to make you play it safe with basic kicks and punches because the risk of being hit at that level = KO every sparring session.

Start small and work your way up.

That's exactly what Krav Maga allows you to do. You can practice your techniques with 100% intensity because you don't actually aim to knock a partner out. I can throw a punch at you with 100% force, but that doesn't mean I can't pull it right before it hits you - which is exactly how Krav Maga teaches you to experience the fear of having a punch coming at you, and the technique to avoid it, without punching you. You get powerhouse punches thrown at your face in random moments enough times, eventually, you'll get used to it, whether you get hit or not. It's not the punch that causes you to twitch, it's the fast movement and your lack of vision. The punches that hurt most, and scare you the most, are those you don't see coming.

 

[JowGaWolf]

That's exactly what Krav Maga allows you to do. You can practice your techniques with 100% intensity because you don't actually aim to knock a partner out. I can throw a punch at you with 100% force, but that doesn't mean I can't pull it right before it hits you - which is exactly how Krav Maga teaches you to experience the fear of having a punch coming at you, and the technique to avoid it, without punching you. You get powerhouse punches thrown at your face in random moments enough times, eventually, you'll get used to it, whether you get hit or not. It's not the punch that causes you to twitch, it's the fast movement and your lack of vision. The punches that hurt most, and scare you the most, are those you don't see coming.

I have a few things that I don't understand about your comment.
I've never seen a Krav Maga class done at 100% intensity.
I've never known anyone who could pull a punch after sending it with 100% intensity. Usually once that punch leaves it can't be pull or redirected by the attacker.
Powerhouse punches thrown at the face usually land unless you are dialing back the power greatly. For example. I don't think it's physically possible for him to pull punches at the intensity level that he's throwing them. I actually think he would hurt himself physically if he tried to pull his punches after they are sent out at 100%. By the time he thinks about pulling the punch, the punch would have already landed.

These guys have a nice sparring pace, but they are no where near 100% intensity

This is low intensity at full power. Even with this, I don't see how they are able to pull punches.

This is high intensity at light power. And because it's light power, it's not 100% intensity. Someone fighting at this intensity level with full power would be 100% intensity and someone would easily get hurt.

 

[jobo]

That's exactly what Krav Maga allows you to do. You can practice your techniques with 100% intensity because you don't actually aim to knock a partner out. I can throw a punch at you with 100% force, but that doesn't mean I can't pull it right before it hits you - which is exactly how Krav Maga teaches you to experience the fear of having a punch coming at you, and the technique to avoid it, without punching you. You get powerhouse punches thrown at your face in random moments enough times, eventually, you'll get used to it, whether you get hit or not. It's not the punch that causes you to twitch, it's the fast movement and your lack of vision. The punches that hurt most, and scare you the most, are those you don't see coming.

well yes and no, you can get use to avoiding fast moving objects that wernt actually going to hit you at all as contradictory as this statement soubds, which has its problem, when part of the skill in fighting is knowing which are going to hit you and which are not, and an enciroment where non of them ate going to hit you, is short of treaching you to avoid those that are, im a firm beliver in training with consequences for failure, it speed up the learning process greatly

however the person who is throwing the pubches that get pulled is not gettibg a great deal out of the exercise, they may as well be punchibg thin air and would certainly be better hittibg a focus pad

 

[JowGaWolf]

You get powerhouse punches thrown at your face in random moments enough times, eventually, you'll get used to it, whether you get hit or not.

I don't know anyone who is used to getting hit hard in the face with a power shot. That's usually an indication that you messed up somewhere. Get enough of them and you'll end up taking an unexpected nap. Power strikes that fall on the guard is one thing, getting nailed where there was no defense is not something you should think of as getting used to. Our heads can only take so much blunt force impact and that's not something you can manually control the response to.

It's not the punch that causes you to twitch, it's the fast movement and your lack of vision.

If you get punched really hard, I can guarantee you that it's the power of the punch that will make you nervous and not the speed of it. I've sparred against people who had really fast punches (faster than mine) and the speed didn't bother me because the power wasn't damaging. I've also trained with a partner when working on a "new" technique that discovered.

The principles and concepts were sound we killed heavy bags with now problem Then the real test came for sparring. He landed the technique and dropped a guy with the body shot. My sparring partner saw what happened and put on protective body gear. He tried to stay away, so my punches weren't that good. I had to reach with the technique which took away lots of my power. After the sparring match he comes up to me and says had he not had the body gear on, I would have probably broken his ribs because he could still fill the punch coming though.

When I spar with teachers and instructors who are better than me, it's the power that I worry about and not the speed. Maybe it's just me.

The punches that hurt most, and scare you the most, are those you don't see coming.

Which is why I don't think there's a way one can actually get used to it.


Maybe you see see something I don't

 

[JowGaWolf]

however the person who is throwing the pubches that get pulled is not gettibg a great deal out of the exercise, they may as well be punchibg thin air and would certainly be better hittibg a focus pad

I only want my training partner to pull punches if I just flat out don't see it coming.

 

[jobo]

I only want my training partner to pull punches if I just flat out don't see it coming.

well yea, im not sayibg it has no part in training, in learning to pick up fast movement, it has a problem with what should you do about it, you know its not going to hit, why would you do any4hing much ? at some point, sooner rather than later, you want on target punches to avoid, or ,,, ,,,,

 

[jobo]

Your original statement invalidates your additional details.

It makes no difference if someone can punch better mechanically or not if the only issue in play is how much of an effect and if that is sufficient to change the outcome of a confrontation with an opponent of very vague abilities and atributes.

If we compare martial arts to the totality of violence one could possibly encounter there is literally no difference between training martial arts and eating potatoes.

Which is why we don't make that comparison.

you first state my addition info has no effect on the validity of my original statement and then that it contradicts it, both of those cant be true and as it nether of them are .

a heavily potatoe based diet could indeed change the conduct of a fight and possibly the conclusion, for good or bad from your stand point

diet is one of the many inputs that could have an effect, so i wouldnt dismiss it as irrelevant at the point

 

[drop bear]

you first state my addition info has no effect on the validity of my original statement and then that it contradicts it, both of those cant be true and as it nether of them are .

a heavily potatoe based diet could indeed change the conduct of a fight and possibly the conclusion, for good or bad from your stand point

diet is one of the many inputs that could have an effect, so i wouldnt dismiss it as irrelevant at the point

You can't have both.

Either martial arts, or anything really, has an effect on self defence. Or it doesn't. You can't have both when you feel like it.

If martial arts has an effect on punching ability. But punching ability does not have an effect on self defence then martial arts has no effect.

Diet cannot have an effect on self defence because we cannot determine what self defence is.

So if I am a trained fighter. He might be better trained. If I have a gun. He might have two guns. Or if i can't fight and he can't fight either and is smaller.

With the entirety of violence to draw from nothing effects the outcome of self defence.

We are talking pure chance.

Or martial arts does have an effect. Say it increases punching power which raises your odds of winning a self defense situation and the idea that self defence is so vague as to be undetermined is false.

 

[jobo]

You can't have both.

Either martial arts, or anything really, has an effect on self defence. Or it doesn't. You can't have both when you feel like it.

If martial arts has an effect on punching ability. But punching ability does not have an effect on self defence then martial arts has no effect.

Diet cannot have an effect on self defence because we cannot determine what self defence is.

So if I am a trained fighter. He might be better trained. If I have a gun. He might have two guns. Or if i can't fight and he can't fight either and is smaller.

With the entirety of violence to draw from nothing effects the outcome of self defence.

We are talking pure chance.

Or martial arts does have an effect. Say it increases punching power which raises your odds of winning a self defense situation and the idea that self defence is so vague as to be undetermined is false.

it has an effect on self defence, it doesnt nrssecerly change the ultimate outcome, but how and when that outcome comp0es to pass it may very well do.

but as we have no idea, at this stage who is attacking who with what, anything more specific than that is speculation of the highest order

and its isnt random change, that would require that all possible outcomes are equally likely and that is not so

 

[drop bear]

it has an effect on self defence, it doesnt nrssecerly change the ultimate outcome, but how and when that outcome comp0es to pass it may very well do.

but as we have no idea, at this stage who is attacking who with what, anything more specific than that is speculation of the highest order

and its isnt random change, that would require that all possible outcomes are equally likely and that is not so

And so it has no effect.

 

[jobo]

And so it has no effect.

it has an effect, it very well may effect the outcome, if you end up getting stabbed 5 seconds later that has effected the outcome

if your stabbed an inch high that effected the out come,

to many variables, to say any more than it can have an effect

 

[drop bear]

it has an effect, it very well may effect the outcome, if you end up getting stabbed 5 seconds later that has effected the outcome

How does it effect an undeterminable outcome?

 

[jobo]

How does it effect an undeterminable outcome?

indeterminatly

 

[Ivan]

Kids these days lol. There always some young buck, thinking that people in TMA don't hit hard enough lol.

I never said that. I said that TMA usually only train with repetition, no sparring, and a vehement lack of resistance in their repetition. I experienced this myself in two different martial arts (as I stated in the article) and that resistance was only applied after reaching a black belt. This means that your training means nothing until you reach your black belt and learn to actually apply the techniques you learnt, and black belts are a minimum of two years. That makes TMA very ineffective compared to more modern arts, though their techniques are just as, if not more, valuable.

For my father, traditional Japanese Jiu-Jitsu is the pinnacle of martial arts, so imagine his disappointment when he learnt that he wouldn't learn how to apply the techniques until he spent at least two years at the classes we attended.

In contrast, Krav Maga uses combative drills and a philosophy that emphasises application and aggression over technique - which is why it's effective enough to be used by special forces. It prepares you for a lot of situations in a very short amount of time, whereas repetition-only TMAs expect you to stick to them for such a large amount of time, that by the time you've learnt to apply them, you've been mugged twice, stabbed three times, and had your lunch money taken by your bully and his whole family tree.

 

[jobo]

I never said that. I said that TMA usually only train with repetition, no sparring, and a vehement lack of resistance in their repetition. I experienced this myself in two different martial arts (as I stated in the article) and that resistance was only applied after reaching a black belt. This means that your training means nothing until you reach your black belt and learn to actually apply the techniques you learnt, and black belts are a minimum of two years. That makes TMA very ineffective compared to more modern arts, though their techniques are just as, if not more, valuable.

For my father, traditional Japanese Jiu-Jitsu is the pinnacle of martial arts, so imagine his disappointment when he learnt that he wouldn't learn how to apply the techniques until he spent at least two years at the classes we attended.

In contrast, Krav Maga uses combative drills and a philosophy that emphasises application and aggression over technique - which is why it's effective enough to be used by special forces. It prepares you for a lot of situations in a very short amount of time, whereas repetition-only TMAs expect you to stick to them for such a large amount of time, that by the time you've learnt to apply them, you've been mugged twice, stabbed three times, and had your lunch money taken by your bully and his whole family tree.

thats not all tma, it probebly not most tmas, but as neither you nor i have vistited most tmas, its hard to say

 

[Ivan]

thats not all tma, it probebly not most tmas, but as neither you nor i have vistited most tmas, its hard to say

You're right. Some styles of Kung Fu have sparring, such JowGaWolf's Jow Ga. But it is a recurring theme across many TMAs. Aikido, JJJ, Shorinji Kempo, to name a few, only have randori and repetition.