Article on Krav Maga

[Gerry Seymour]

who were the pro fighters? where & when?

You’re deflecting by challenging credentials, rather than simply discussing the topic. He asked a questing. Why not just answer?

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Yeah but in a self defense situation, how often are you going to encounter someone using the Guard on you? How often are you going to encounter someone using the Guard to the point where they're a threat to you? I'm running through self defense scenarios in my head and I really can't think of one where you, the victim is wrapped up in an assailant's Guard and in mortal danger. I can't even think of a scenario where you end up in someone's Guard if you're being attacked by someone.

Like for example, if you're a woman and some rapist attempts to pin you down, you get into Guard, sweep them, and end up on top. You're not in their Guard, you're in Mount.

You're leaving a bar and some goon tackles you to the ground, and you enter Guard, wrap them up, sweep them and end up on top. Again, you're not in their Guard, you're in Mount.

Help me out here, I'm just not seeing a situation where you'd wind up in an attacker's Guard. I suppose MAYBE you could sock some clown in the face, they fall to the ground, and you follow them to the ground and your start wrestling with them and they could put you in Guard, but why would you ever follow someone to the ground in a crowded room if you're standing?

Even if that happened inside your house and you knocked an assailant to the ground, why would you follow them to the ground? Just start soccer kicking them in the head or curb stomping them.

You're getting it mixed it. No one's going to use the guard on you. I agreed with you on that from the beginning. But you might use the guard on someone, and if you do, they may have some idea of the baaics on how to escape guard. If tbey do, you need to know how to keep them there. Which means you need to practice that in class, which involves both people learning how to escape guard for the practice to be useful.

 

[Hanzou]

You're getting it mixed it. No one's going to use the guard on you. I agreed with you on that from the beginning. But you might use the guard on someone, and if you do, they may have some idea of the baaics on how to escape guard. If tbey do, you need to know how to keep them there. Which means you need to practice that in class, which involves both people learning how to escape guard for the practice to be useful.

Gotcha. My main point though was revolving around that video I originally posted where they're attempting to teach a systematic approach towards escaping the Guard in a self defense context (it's a bad approach, and the context behind it is dumb in of itself).

However, I completely agree that if you're learning the Guard for self defense, you need to practice dealing with people attempting to escape from the hold.

Looks like we just got our wires crossed.

 

[Oni_Kadaki]

“Do” isn’t “not real”, it’s just focused on things other than combat. As for nikkyo and related locks not working, I know a couple of prison guards and a few cops who’d disagree. If you use them properly, and set them up with positioning and structure-breaking, they have value.

I concur. As said, my first Aikido Sensei was retired NYPD, and NY sees quite a bit of action. He specifically said that he found Aikido more applicable to the job than a striking style. I'd be curious to know how much Aikido Stanly Stud studied... I've found that it takes awhile for the lesson about breaking down structure and balance, in order to assume control, to really sink in. At least, it did for me!

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Gotcha. My main point though was revolving around that video I originally posted where they're attempting to teach a systematic approach towards escaping the Guard in a self defense context (it's a bad approach, and the context behind it is dumb in of itself).

However, I completely agree that if you're learning the Guard for self defense, you need to practice dealing with people attempting to escape from the hold.

Looks like we just got our wires crossed.

Seems like it. I was wondering where the issue was, sometimes these things don't come across right over text. That video you posted was a horrible self defense drill for a couple reasons.

 

[JowGaWolf]

10 years ago I'd have agreed with you. But more people know how to grapple than they used to, so it's more likely that someone will know the basics of a guard/how to escape it, meaning it's something to train for. Not doing so is like the people who say that they don't need good striking skills cause the bad guy won't know how to punch.

This is my mindset as well. If I get into a fight, I'm more likely to encounter someone who is going to try and run their ground game on me. Which is why I'm always bringing up avoiding or preventing takedowns. I can look at random street fight videos and the ground game will come up often. If they think they can slam you they will try to do that. If they think they can ground and pound, then they will do that. The popularity of MMA has attracted many people to train it, especially BJJ.

My default assumption is that a person will try to take me down BJJ or MMA me. lol. All those fanboys out there

 

[Hanzou]

This is my mindset as well. If I get into a fight, I'm more likely to encounter someone who is going to try and run their ground game on me. Which is why I'm always bringing up avoiding or preventing takedowns. I can look at random street fight videos and the ground game will come up often. If they think they can slam you they will try to do that. If they think they can ground and pound, then they will do that. The popularity of MMA has attracted many people to train it, especially BJJ.

My default assumption is that a person will try to take me down BJJ or MMA me. lol. All those fanboys out there

You should learn the Guard in case your attempts to prevent the takedown fail. The last place you want to be is on your back not knowing what to do.

 

[Kemposhot]

This is my mindset as well. If I get into a fight, I'm more likely to encounter someone who is going to try and run their ground game on me. Which is why I'm always bringing up avoiding or preventing takedowns. I can look at random street fight videos and the ground game will come up often. If they think they can slam you they will try to do that. If they think they can ground and pound, then they will do that. The popularity of MMA has attracted many people to train it, especially BJJ.

My default assumption is that a person will try to take me down BJJ or MMA me. lol. All those fanboys out there

We started training with this mentality in my system as well a few years back. It makes logical sense, people will attempt to mimic what they see. Also as you said, no telling how many people out there have taken some basic mma classes at their local gym or train with their friends who do.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I concur. As said, my first Aikido Sensei was retired NYPD, and NY sees quite a bit of action. He specifically said that he found Aikido more applicable to the job than a striking style. I'd be curious to know how much Aikido Stanly Stud studied... I've found that it takes awhile for the lesson about breaking down structure and balance, in order to assume control, to really sink in. At least, it did for me!

And I've seen some Aikido instructors who don't seem to teach that lesson, at all. From what I saw in the classes, folks appear to learn in on their own through repetition. This might be a training flaw engendered by the focus on Aiki, where some folks see any input of strength (even small ones) as not "aiki" enough. That leaves less experienced folks with few tools for breaking structure.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

This is my mindset as well. If I get into a fight, I'm more likely to encounter someone who is going to try and run their ground game on me. Which is why I'm always bringing up avoiding or preventing takedowns. I can look at random street fight videos and the ground game will come up often. If they think they can slam you they will try to do that. If they think they can ground and pound, then they will do that. The popularity of MMA has attracted many people to train it, especially BJJ.

My default assumption is that a person will try to take me down BJJ or MMA me. lol. All those fanboys out there

I'll just add that my primary thought of ground game is that I'm not always sure I won't just trip during the encounter. I'm pretty good at takedown defense, but that doesn't help if I trip over a chair I didn't notice.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

You should learn the Guard in case your attempts to prevent the takedown fail. The last place you want to be is on your back not knowing what to do.

I don't do a lot of ground fight work, but we do work on surviving mount, some basic getting into and protecting in guard, and reversing into mount (or just escaping). Pretty much everything else on the ground is a variation of side control.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I'll also add, to @Hanzou's point, that schools that don't have an experienced ground fighter benefit a lot from occasional seminars on ground fighting, especially if the guest instructor brings a couple of mid-level students to play.

 

[stanly stud]

Says the guy who never really tried to discuss it to start with.

I think i have mate just not going to get into a silly online bitching match with a guy who is waffling about it. too much blah..blah with no substance behind it. Why get into a pointless discussion with a guy who i know has (in my opinion) never been in a ring?

 

[JowGaWolf]

I'll also add, to @Hanzou's point, that schools that don't have an experienced ground fighter benefit a lot from occasional seminars on ground fighting, especially if the guest instructor brings a couple of mid-level students to play.

This is why it's good to spar with schools of different systems.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

i know has (in my opinion)

There's a problem in that statement.

 

[stanly stud]

There's a problem in that statement.

not really mate, my opinion.